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It's a problem of suburbia. With the loss of distinct towns came the loss of community. People just live at postal addresses and work and interact with people elsewhere.
I don't know - I mean I think it is a bit of both. In California I had made friendships with neighbors, but it depended on where we were living. My downstairs neighbor and I became friends and since I am out of California we still talk.
My parents have been friends with their neighbors next door for 10 years.
However in Las Vegas, rarely do people in the complex even look at you except to complain. I don't blame this on Las Vegas, just the complex I live in. It seems to me the kinds of people you live by rather than the city make the difference.
I have lived in planned communities and large apartment complexes which seem to be the worst for making friends, whereas the lower priced or more run down - I don't mean slums, but you know more middle class or middle of the road places that I have lived in were all much nicer and friendly. This is just my experience - but goes to show you that it isn't everywhere (and likely is largely because my personal taste for the wealthy makes me think they are snooty, lol)
It won't just happen - you have to make the effort too. It goes both ways.
I grew up in Latinamerica and have lived in the U.S. for 12 years (PA, FL, TX), and will move to SLC soon. I'm catholic but not obsessed with religion. I live in Texas (small town) and have to say that Baptists can be just as bad as Mormons, if you don't want to participate of their activities. Even worse. The problem is not the Mormons, its the religious obsession that exists in this country. Everything revolves around religion. So when a protestant moves to Utah, then they feel "left out", because they are not the predominant religious group in town.
I personally feel that SLC is a bigger town and it offers lots of possibilities. I don't have to be close friend to my neighbor to be good neighbors. My kids will go to catholic school where they'll make friends of several religions, more balanced than the public schools, and they'll probably have friends in the neighborhood too, as they're very sociable (and so are we). If anyone wants to come to my home, they're welcome. If they want coffee, wine or Rum, or not, fine, but I will have whatever I feel like having, and people will just have to decide if they like me or not, just like I did in small-town Texas without any problems.
In the end, I just think Americans just need to relax a little bit about religion.
My kids will go to catholic school where they'll make friends of several religions, more balanced than the public schools.
I'm a little lost here. If you want balance, then why do you think a Catholic school will provide it? I'm a graduate student at a Jesuit University, and I don't find it any more balanced than pubic schools I have attended. Everywhere I look, there are reminders of what the predominant religion is. It would seem to me that if you want balance, you would send your children to a non-religious affiliated charter school, assuming you don’t want to send your children to public schools because you believe them to be dominated by LDS children. Of course, in Utah, even non-religious affiliated charter schools would still most likely be dominated by children of the LDS faith. Now, if you are looking for a quality education for you children, I have to admit the Catholics and Jesuits are world renown for their high quality schools, but they are most definitely not balanced. It wasn’t until I started at a Jesuit institution that I learned the true meaning of the word heathen.
I'm a little lost here. If you want balance, then why do you think a Catholic school will provide it? I'm a graduate student at a Jesuit University, and I don't find it any more balanced than pubic schools I have attended. Everywhere I look, there are reminders of what the predominant religion is. It would seem to me that if you want balance, you would send your children to a non-religious affiliated charter school, assuming you don’t want to send your children to public schools because you believe them to be dominated by LDS children. Of course, in Utah, even non-religious affiliated charter schools would still most likely be dominated by children of the LDS faith. Now, if you are looking for a quality education for you children, I have to admit the Catholics and Jesuits are world renown for their high quality schools, but they are most definitely not balanced. It wasn’t until I started at a Jesuit institution that I learned the true meaning of the word heathen.
Yes, We are looking for quality education. But you also answered your own question: Public schools in Utah are dominated by LDS kids (and teachers), so catholic schools provide a reasonably priced alternative, with great education, and a place where many non-LDS kids of all religions (and some LDS even) go. The catholic schools we saw have a good 20-30% of non-catholic students. Balance also because, although I have nothing against Mormons (truly), SLC is a place where LDS culture dominates everything, and my kids will inevitably be touched by that, so the catholic school will be our attempt to balance this. Don't get me wrong, I like the place and I'm sure we'll have a great life during our years there.
Think long and hard before moving your non-LDS family to Utah. We lived there for over 20 years, due to my husband's career. It was OK when we were just a couple, living in the U of U area. But when the kids came along, we moved out to our "dream home" in the Cottonwoods area. After 3 years of, at first subtle and then later, outright, shunning; we finally packed them up and moved out of state. We owned a successful business, had friends both LDS and non-LDS, and are a happy, functional family.
But for two years in a row, our daughter was the only non-Mormon in her class (2nd & 3rd grades), including the teacher, and it was like she went to Sunday School every day. She came home spouting Mormon doctrine. When it became apparent to our neighbors (99% LDS - we were in a beautiful suburb which we learned after moving is commonly referred to as "maternity meadows") that we weren't going to convert, we were cold-shouldered to the max. Our kids were allowed to spend the night at the neighbors' houses, but they were never allowed to stay at ours. Both of our kids were told by neighbor kids that we (the parents) were going to go to hell because we drank coffee. When our kids started being excluded from birthday parties and other similar events involving the kids they went to school with every day, we knew we had to get out.
We finally decided to leave in order to allow our kids to grow up in an area where they had at least a level playing field when it came to making friends--and eventually dating. This was 7 years ago, and we have never regretted our decision. Our kids have thanked us repeatedly, and have done great in school, and one just graduated from college. The other is on the way. We would consider moving back as a couple, when they've both moved on in their lives, as we love the mtns and the desert.
This is not a wholesale condemnation of the Mormons, but it is factual, and we feel others should be warned.
IS it me or does dis lady seem to hav a personal bias towards da mormans. Ill admit i sometimes hav a dislike towards mormans but its something i have to learn to get ovr cuz its wrong. Their not judging me funny thing dey wana except me as part of the community where i come from. dis lady says dat the mormons totally shunned out her kids. den y does it say on almost every mormon church "visitors Welcome". answer me that and come up with a damn convincing argument. I think its wrong shes attacking the mormon community like dat, it may be true that some mormons dont want to socialize with others of different beliefs. But da mormons I know r open minded and not bias like some people. She shud of tryed a different area insted of a different state.
I very much appreciate your candid reply about your experience in SLC. We are considering a move there as well from the Bay Area. We have two small children, one starting preschool in the fall. If we do decide to move, are there areas in SLC that you would suggest as being the MOST diverse in terms of people and also as left leaning as possible? We live in one of the most liberal places in the country and we love it here so Utah feels like potentially a major change of culture for us.
I very much appreciate your candid reply about your experience in SLC. We are considering a move there as well from the Bay Area. We have two small children, one starting preschool in the fall. If we do decide to move, are there areas in SLC that you would suggest as being the MOST diverse in terms of people and also as left leaning as possible? We live in one of the most liberal places in the country and we love it here so Utah feels like potentially a major change of culture for us.
If you appreciate candid responses, then I need to tell you to stay in the Bay Area. If you “love” the left-leaning insane culture of that area, then you won’t find much to your liking in Utah. Yes, there are some places you might fit in, but the overwhelming social, political, and religious environment in Utah is ultra conservative and LDS. I can only tell you that I fled Sodom and Gomorra—you call them Oakland and San Francisco—to find a decent and wholesome place to live. I was born, raised, and worked in that cesspool for 55-years, and I am well versed in its political and social practices, all of which nauseate me. I have found that everyone I have met in Utah holds the same values I do, so I just don’t believe you would fit in and be happy here, unless you could convert to the Republican Party and understand gun control is how well you aim your shots.
SaveMtns, I experienced the same thing as a child growing up in Sandy, UT in the 80s. What surprises me is this is still going on today, as you've described. For most of my elementary school years, I was the only non-LDS child in my entire school, and that fact was well known. It wasn't so much as an issue when I was very young, but by around age 12-13 all the Mormon girls more or less stopped talking to me after I had no interest in attending their Young Women's groups and little get-togethers. Their church seemed to dominate their social life and I was soon without friends.
And I heard similar comments about my parents being sinners because they drank wine and let us play outside on Sundays.
I also grew up in SLC in the 80s, my experience was completely opposite of yours. I grew up in the Taylorsville area as an Asian where 90% of my friends were LDS. My LDS friends would usually always extend an invitation to socialize with them at their church functions, I always politely declined their invitations (unless it was sports-related like basketball). Because I declined their invitations, not one of my many LDS friends ever ostracized me, nor did their parents. In fact, the usual response after I declined any church invitation was always "alright I'll call you afterwards and we'll hangout." Also, their invitations were never pushy as if they were trying to convert me, it was always as a just a social gesture like "do you want to go to the movies" or "do you want to go ride our bikes." Even dating Mormon girls while growing up wasn't that bad (probably could have been better elsewhere but I'm not going to complain... most Mormon girls are hot ), I batted a few singles in elementary and progressed to triples in HS, never any homeruns though.
I personally think that it's the person (you) as opposed to the environment (Mormons).
Last edited by wildone458; 07-28-2007 at 06:04 AM..
When you have a predominately Mormon area, they are going to be involved in church related activites. It encompasses most of their lives. In fact the church is structured so that there are constantly all sorts of activities going on. Result is that not much happens outside of those activites. there just plain is not enough time. When people who move in who are non Mormon run into this, they are upset. The non's are upset by being asked to go to church activities, which it turns out are practically the only thing to do. After a while those Mormons who tried to include the non's into activites which just happened to be church related, get the hint. They stop asking and keep on with their activities. It's not shunning, it is getting on with their life and leaving those who don't want to participate alone since that is what has been demonstrated. That is the adult end of this so called shunning. It is not shunning it is giving the people who are non Mormon exactly what they wanted, to be left alone about church related activites.
For the kids, the schools do not preach at the kids. I have lived in this state 3 different times. One of those times my children were in grade, and middle school. I would help out in the classrooms as a teachers aide. Not once in all the years my kids were in school here did I hear a teacher say one thing church related. Besides by law it is not allowed. Not all kids are Mormon as has been asserted. What I have observed in both this state and other states, is the kids themselves. Kids are cruel. They are just learning they can control how others feel and do it in such a way as to really hurt the other child. They are innept at the socal graces if you want to call it that. Yes they can parrot things, but they will parrot what ever they feel will inflict the most hurt towards one they want to be hurtful too. Most times it is the new kid. Other times it is the child that may have a physical problem. Other times it is the child who is not as fast. The list can go on as to why they pick on one child over another. Peer pressure is a horrible thing to witness. Put this into a Mormon environment, and they the children who want to hurt will use what they know. If they have heard at Sunday School that drinking coffee is wrong, they will then use that to go further and say that your parents are going to hell for drinking coffee. Well first thing is Mormon's do not believe in hell. jOuter Darkness would be a more appropriate phrase, so this tells me the OP was a bit full of it. Or try terrestial kingdom. Now kids hear bits of their parents thoughts at home. do the parents tell the children directly that drinking coffee is wrong and not to asscoiate with the children of those who drink coffee? Again this is suspect. Children will hear that it is wrong in church. The next thing you will hear is them saying my mom said, when it was not in direct correlation with that child that has been singled out to be hurt, but in the broader sense of what the religion teaches each of us about our own bodies. So this simply little phrase of my mom said or my dad said, or my parents said...... gets blown out of proportion. How many times have we as parents said something like I hate Ford cars, and then our children go off and tell other kids, your car is bad, becasue my parents said Ford cars are bad. All of this is children acting out and projecting hearsay without all the facts of it all. It is being singled out by the majority of the kids in a school to be the object of the hurt game. My kids in some schools were fine. In other schools had problems. This is not just in Utah, but in the various states we lived in. Most of those other states, they were the only Mormons in those schools. Childhood is a rough learning experience no matter where you grow up, or the culture that is there. We learn at a young age to conform to the dominate bullying group in school or we are the ones that get picked on.
SLC is a wonderful place to raise kids. Not saing that drugs and such do not happen here, but it is not as prevelent as what it was in the Bay area of California. I like the safer atmosphere that is in Utah. Not to say there is no crime, but it is not like again the Bay area, or even Nashville TN, or even Tucson Az.
I also wonder after finding out there is a troll that likes to grind an ax about Utah if the OP is one of those ID's that has been changed but the isp remains the same. Seems there is constantly the same rhetoric popping up with the same scenerio all the time. Yet it is just one person changing ID's to do it. Even so far as creating the other id's that back up the OP theme.
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It's not the Mormon's, it's all religions
), I batted a few singles in elementary and progressed to triples in HS, never any homeruns though.
