Raising Children in SLC, Utah - Non LDS (how much, home)

[westerndog]

Wow!
Talk about a long forum-all over the place.The LDS church members talking about how inclusionary they are;the "outsiders" waxing in the other direction.
What does the original poster take from all of this?

Well I have been here 8 years,--love the mountains,climate,skiing
But after waiting 8 years for the city to "change" ie become more hereogeneous religiously,I have about given up.
The downtown project has pushed me over the edge.Instead of a hip downtown with outdoor bars,restaurants,entertainment--akin to San Diego Gaslamp district--we are getting the LDS church version--not to be cynical but I am not holding my breath that this will result in a vibrant downtown.

This town is run by the LDS church.If you can accept it,it is a great place to live.
If you cannot, then do not move here, in spite of the extreme verbosity and conspiracy theorists annotated in the previous postings.

[mrm84107]

When we moved to Utah 16 years ago - as a choice not a necessity - we were not concerned with the LDS factor since Mississippi is approximately the same percentage Baptist as Utah is Mormon. We are Episcopal so we thought going from being “heathens” to “gentiles” was a step up.

What we failed to consider is that unlike Baptists, who are independent and spend most of their time feuding with each others, the LDS church is a hierarchal monolithic structure. Since Mormons are the majority of the population, and the church only recently came out with the position that one can be both a Democrat and good Mormon, most of the legislature is naturally made up of Republican Mormons.

While the church does not actively engage in politics, except for what it deems to be morality issues, the large majority of the legislature made up of practicing Mormons naturally ask “what would be the church’s position on this?” and err on the side of being perhaps more conservative than the church. So I would agree that there is no real separation of church and state, but it is natural and not created by some sinister conspiracy.

My wife and I have had no real issues with the Mormon community and have good work friends in that faith. Once it was determined that we were not interested in converting we have been pretty much ignored outside of work, and have had fewer visits from missionaries than we used to have in Mississippi.

The LDS church keeps its adherents so busy with church related tasks that there is not much time for interacting either with gentiles or Mormons from different Wards. We do resent the LDS church asking its followers to be “tolerant” of non-believers. Although well meaning, the insinuation is that there is something wrong with non-LDS people.

Would we move to Utah with children knowing what we do now? No.

Utah has been good to us and we love it, but it can be a cruel place for non-LDS children. Our daughter was almost 15 when we moved. She was a bubbly, friendly, cheerleader type blue eyed blonde, like most of the kids at the school where we enrolled her.

Everyone was friendly to her the first morning, until she was invited to go to seminary with her new friends and told them she was not of their faith. For those unfamiliar with Utah, the LDS church bulds LDS seminaries next to schools where their children go for religious instruction or when not in class.

After finding out she was non-Mormon she was cut dead by the group with which she was otherwise a natural fit. They were no more intentionally being cruel than most self-centered teens, but try telling that to a broken-hearted 14 year old surrounded by strangers who could care less abut her.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by mrm84107

We do resent the LDS church asking its followers to be “tolerant” of non-believers. Although well meaning, the insinuation is that there is something wrong with non-LDS people

That’s a pretty fair assessment. I have a different interpretation on the calls for tolerance. I think most conflicts around the world are caused by lack of tolerance. Below are a couple of quotes from LDS President Hinckley on the subject.

“We must never forget that we live in a world of great diversity. The people of the earth are all our Father’s children and are of many and varied religious persuasions. We must cultivate tolerance and appreciation and respect one another. We have differences of doctrine. This need not bring about animosity or any kind of holier-than-thou attitude.”

Or this one.

“… We must work harder to build mutual respect, an attitude of forbearance, with tolerance one for another regardless of the doctrines and philosophies which we may espouse. Concerning these you and I may disagree. But we can do so with respect and civility”

At the risk of turning this into the religion forum, I would also recommend reading the following statement by an LDS apostle. I offer it, because it seems to directly apply to the topic of this thread – inclusion and exclusion on the part of Mormons and others in the state of Utah.

Also – FYI, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is a Democrat Mormon. As is James E. Faust, Second Counselor in the Church First Presidency. Many Mormons are Republicans, but their have been Democrat Mormons for years.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by mrm84107

the church only recently came out with the position that one can be both a Democrat and good Mormon.

I haven't seen this in any Church bulletin, heard it in a conference talk, or noted any change in scripture, so I believe it is still a mortal sin to be a Democrat, regardless of your religion.

[ajshockey]

I have lived in Logan Utah my whole life and went to elementry, middle school, and high school, and the mormon religion is not constantly talked about and preached. I agree the person who said that when us mormons invite the non-mormons, they get mad and feel like we're trying to push our religion on them. I have never pushed my mormon beliefs on anyone. Yes I've invited my non mormon friends to mormon activites, some have accepted and some havent. I'm still friends with a lot of non mormon people and we go out to lunch or hiking, etc.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

I have no children in Utah but I see what happens to my friends' kids. Once they get to dating age, they are excluded - no LDS kid is going to waste time dating a non-LDS kid. The majority of LDS kids in Utah marry very young (at least to me, it's very young) and many are engaged right out of high school. The boys go on their missions and the girls wait for them. In the marriage dance, dating someone you aren't going to marry is a waste of time to them. I have seen this so many times I can't count!

[stycotl]

first of all: trebek, where in argentina were you, and what led you there? i realize this was posted a while ago, but i'm curious. i lived in argentina for a while up in the salta area. loved it.

next: i agree with a lot of the people on both sides of the argument here. i see discrimination, and i see perceived discrimination. most of the divide between us is caused by misunderstanding though, not discrimination.

as an example: when we were growing up in slc, we had some nonmormon neighbors move in. they were gymnasts and had a giant trampoline in their backyard. all of the neighbor kids were invited to play on the trampoline as long as their parents were ok with it, while they wer home.

my sister (7 or 8 at the time) asked my mom if we could go over, and my mom said that we couldn't because she didn't know them yet. my sister didn't understand, and as an explanation my mom stated that the neighbors (not because they weren't mormon min dyou, but because she hadn't met them yet) were strangers still, and that she wasn't comfortable with us playing at strangers' houses. they could be psychos or child molesters, etc.

so, the next day, my sister told the neighbors that we weren't allowed to go over to their house because my mom told us that they were child molesters. obviously the neighbors were not too thrilled to hear that, and came to ask my mom why she would say such a thing. it took a little clearing up, but eventually they learned that my mom just wanted to get to know them first, and the neighbors decided that we were somewhat normal after all, and not the twisted mormon fundies that we had appeared to be.

miscommunication. children saying stupid things. if they hadn't come over, or if my mom had never talked to them, they would probably still think to this day that there was a mormon family that assumed they were child molesters. would have colored their opinion of the state, and the church, pretty horribly.

luckily that wasn't the case, and we remained good friends with them until we moved. anyway, i think it mostly comes down to lack of intelligent communication. so easy to confuse things, and even easier to become offended or hurt when you have to fill in gaps, because your mind is pretty good at going to the worst possible scenarios.

aaron out.

[chezmoi]

to savemtns: I am so sorry your children had such a negative experience in Utah. That is soooo not the way the LDS Church is supposed to function. I think we are all going to be judged on how we treat people --- no matter what religion they are. Please don't judge all LDS members on the way you and your family were treated.

[BuckeyezRule]

My kids are 4 1/2 & 3 1/2, & my oldest, DS, will go to K, this fall. I moved to Utah happily married w/ kids, so, no experience on the dating scene. I will wait & see.

[tupapi]

I've been in SLC for 9 months now. Overall we're very happy with our move. We like the city and activities. We have not been visited by missionaries or neighbors. I think it became very obvious that we were not interested from the start, when we met the LDS family that sold us our house. With one exception, the neighbors are very cold, and after waving at some and not receiving a response we gave up. We have made friends through our kids' school and through my work, etc., most are non-LDS, it's just the way it is.

Knowing the town better now, I wouldn't move my kids here to have them go to a public school (with a few exceptions around downtown SLC). Public schools are basically LDS schools. Nothing wrong with that, except that they're funded with taxes. I know the LDS members of this forum will disagree, but that's just the way it is. The LDS church does not invest in schools. Instead, public schools are populated by an overwhelming LDS majority, including teachers, and LDS seminaries are located in front of all schools. Children go to the seminary from school, very often during school hours, leaving the "others" behind. That's why the LDS population of Utah rejected the school vouchers, a very "republican" proposal, out of ignorance and fear of losing the funding for "their" schools. So if you're moving to SLC with children (non-LDS), seriously consider a private school, or schools in a more diverse area of town. My kids go to a catholic school, where there's actually a good portion of non-catholics (Greek, protestant, Asian, Muslim and even LDS).