still grinding that axe, eh? careful–when it gets too sharp you end up cutting yourself and everyone around you.
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Originally Posted by Taboo2
How about those HUMAN emotions called compassion, empathy and sympathy coming in to play. Of course, one must be human to have those emotions and express them.
Who said it was your fault? You appear to think of this life altering event like a car accident. NO FAULT. When i see someone get hit by a car, just because i was not at fault- or even INVOLVED, i am able to go over to see if the victim is ok and show them i am concerned for their welfare and apologize that they were injured. I didn't cause the accident but i have compassion.
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but that is much different than what you were claiming that we need to do. here are your words, in case you forgot what you said:
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What happened was unacceptable and what the LDS members on this board should be doing, is apologizing for the nasty, UNGODLIKE, behaviors that was instilled in the children who did this to your children. That would be the GODLY thing to do instead of denying it happened.
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it had nothing to do with the lds members on this board, and you know that as well as i do.
empathy, understanding, getting involved–all of those are awesome traits, and they are all things that humans should be involved in. but they are all different than apologetic remorse. if you don't understand that difference, i will help you out with some of those wiki links that you were so graciously providing earlier.
Empathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Remorse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
what you are doing is allowing your bias to cloud your understanding of the situation. were you not so biased against mormons, i doubt that you would have seen logic in the idea that innocent mormons need to apologize for the actions of guilty mormons.
as far as southernbelle's examples all being 'irrelevant' because they all happened in the past, here are a few current ones for you: should all muslims apologize for 9/11? should all idahoans or all republicans have to apologize for larry craig's actions? should all of illinois, or all of the democratic party be held accountable for blagovich's stupidity?
so, unless you are willing to admit that your earlier claims are wrong, it looks like your moral crusdade will meet a quick–and logical–demise.
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This is not about who you know personally. This is about the way a non-lds girl was treated by lds children/teens. Why do you all run circles around the facts trying to confuse the issue. Trying to ignore, disregard, or dismiss the incident does not make it any less real for that family who lived through it.
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no one is running in any circles. he mentioned that he doesn't condone that kind of treatment, and that he doesn't associate with people that do. you are just mad because he didn't take responsibility for someone else's ignorant prejudice.
but again, that would be perfectly obvious to you if you weren't so bitterly fanatic about us evil, neighbor-hating, science-despising, child-molesting, baby-devouring mormons.
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How about if you met this OP in person, and you heard her story, you would not be capable of expressing regret that she went through this ordeal in the name of your God? The word Callous comes to mind. That must be the look you are all going for.
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what a witch hunt. katzpur hasn't said anything along the lines that would cause a normal person to jump to the 'callous' conclusion. your emotional state seems to be affecting your ability to have a normal conversation with people. unfortunately, it seems to be stuck in that state, since this is pretty much par for the course when trying to converse with you.
again, in case you missed it above, REMORSE and EMPATHY are two entirely separate things. read a book about it if it isn't clear yet.
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NO but this poster DOES and this is what we are discussing. We are not talking about everyone holding all mormons accountable.
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when you use the word 'apologize,' that is exactly what you are talking about.
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This conversation is about one specific incident and the LDS members inability to recognize when someone is being treated unfairly in the name of their God.
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who said we don't recognize it? ass-umptions don't make for intelligent conversation.
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As for bringing in Northern Californians religious bigotry? Never once seen anything remotely like religious bigotry happen to anyone out here. Racial, yes, Religious? Nope.
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i call the bull-schiez flag on this one. every culture on the planet fights bigotry of all types, including religious bigotry. if you want to claim that north cali is somehow above the weaknesses that the *entire* rest of the world suffers from, be my guest and back it up with some proof.
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Lucky for us, my best friend is a Mormon, and my other 3 best friends are Catholic, Buddhist (Soka Gakkai), and Muslim (Fijian), and my husband is Episcopalian and I am not. We have quite the diversity here.
It is a shame Utah cannot say the same.
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more logical fallacies in reasoning. you ever get tired of steering through life with those uncalibrated, hypocritical, self righteous ideals?
utah is not as diverse as some other places, but it is certainly not only inhabited by mormons. your claim would make this whole argument moot since there would be no nonmormons here to have their feelings hurt.
i've got catholic friends–here in utah. i've muslim friends–here in utah. i've got hindu friends–you guessed it–here in utah. i've got atheist friends here as well. i could go on, but then i'd have to start a questionare, 'cause i actually don't even know what religion most of my friends are. it just isn't that big a deal.
but of course, that would throw a wrench in the reasoning that backs up your agenda, so you will dismiss this without any thought.
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This little incident most likely would NEVER have happened anywhere but there.
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wrong again. too bad; you're like 0 for 300 or something. i have seen religious persecution in every country i have visited, and in every state i have lived in. i have also seen it any many states that i have only visited.
again, this is a human problem, not a mormon problem. you seem to have a hard time understanding the psychology behind the issue.
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And from what i can tell, most of the LDS people take absolutely NO responsibility for the actions of their fellow saints, which is BIZARRE because when it comes time for a mormon to need to move, the whole WARD pitches in.
Only take responsibility when it's something good NO?
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helping ward members (and even their nonmormon neighbors, gasp!) move from place to place has absolutely nothing to do with taking responsibility for the actions of other people.
false analogy. fallacious reasoning number... hmmm... ah, i lost count.
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I'm done with you. Your true colors have shown themselves. THank you for your time.
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sigh. again, katz didn't say anything to reveal a dark, sinister, neighbor-hating interior. katz simply said that an apology from board members was not appropriate.
emotional reactions certainly screw up the rational thought process of a human being, and hatred is one of the more powerful of the emotional responses.
as far as what happened to this nonmormon family, and any other that has suffered at the hands of stupid mormons, that really is sad. sad for a lot of reasons.
it means that a human being, one of my brothers or sisters, is being mistreated.
it means that someone does not understand or care about being charitable or loving.
it means that someone is allowing their ignorant emotions to rule their judgment and justify their biases.
and it also means that future generations now have to deal with the backlash. the children of the ignorant haters will now have to cope with the emotional baggage that are attached to their parents' prejudices that they inherit.
the children of the victimized family will have to deal with the trauma of rejection, and will possibly have to deal with the budding retributive prejudice of their parents and themselves toward the ignorant haters.
truly, hatred and prejudice in any form hurts everyone. that includes taboo's prejudice of mormonism; it is certainly causing as many problems as is the hatred of a stupid mormon toward his or her nonmormon neighbors.
what can we do, us mormon members of the forums here?
we can be supportive. we can offer our friendship. we can invite those that surround us to associate with us, to be included in our activities and conversations, to
befriend people, yes, even those that are different than we are.
should we take responsibility for the actions of the idiots next door that don't associate with 'gentiles?" of course not. they will reap what they sow. we should be kind to them too, and when possible we should show them that they are wrong to hate. we should not however apologize for their behavior, nor should we accept it.
aaron out.
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