Raising Children in SLC, Utah - Non LDS (Sandy, St. George: new home, neighborhoods)

[SaveMtns]

Think long and hard before moving your non-LDS family to Utah. We lived there for over 20 years, due to my husband's career. It was OK when we were just a couple, living in the U of U area. But when the kids came along, we moved out to our "dream home" in the Cottonwoods area. After 3 years of, at first subtle and then later, outright, shunning; we finally packed them up and moved out of state. We owned a successful business, had friends both LDS and non-LDS, and are a happy, functional family.

But for two years in a row, our daughter was the only non-Mormon in her class (2nd & 3rd grades), including the teacher, and it was like she went to Sunday School every day. She came home spouting Mormon doctrine. When it became apparent to our neighbors (99% LDS - we were in a beautiful suburb which we learned after moving is commonly referred to as "maternity meadows") that we weren't going to convert, we were cold-shouldered to the max. Our kids were allowed to spend the night at the neighbors' houses, but they were never allowed to stay at ours. Both of our kids were told by neighbor kids that we (the parents) were going to go to hell because we drank coffee. When our kids started being excluded from birthday parties and other similar events involving the kids they went to school with every day, we knew we had to get out.

We finally decided to leave in order to allow our kids to grow up in an area where they had at least a level playing field when it came to making friends--and eventually dating. This was 7 years ago, and we have never regretted our decision. Our kids have thanked us repeatedly, and have done great in school, and one just graduated from college. The other is on the way. We would consider moving back as a couple, when they've both moved on in their lives, as we love the mtns and the desert.

This is not a wholesale condemnation of the Mormons, but it is factual, and we feel others should be warned.

[Trebek]

Why are you writing this? I've read nearly every post on this board, and I heard a few contributors who slightly echoed your points, but most were quite the opposite.

And you come out of the blue and start a post like this with out even being asked? I have no idea where you are coming from, but I seriously doubt your claims as being the norm.

My son plays with Mormans all the time and has never discussed religion with them. The Mormon kids I'm speaking of are always spending the night with non-Mormon kids in their neighborhood, and their parents are conservative enough to spend the time to home-school their kids.

Again, I don't know why you brought this up right out of nowhere, sounds almost as if you have a personal agenda.

[SaveMtns]

I wrote this because we spent over 20 years of our lives as Utahns--both enjoying it and contributing to the community, and ultimately had to make the very difficult decision to, as I stated, move our kids to where they were treated as equals. I believe it is only fair for non-LDS people to have the opportunity to evaluate a potential move--especially where children are concerned--based on the real-life experiences of others.

As for the timing, I only discovered this forum recently quite by accident.

[Trebek]

I've been here for exactly one day. I love it so far. I've met all kinds of people. This place rocks!!!

Except for the 3.2 beer.....

[gnubler]

SaveMtns, I experienced the same thing as a child growing up in Sandy, UT in the 80s. What surprises me is this is still going on today, as you've described. For most of my elementary school years, I was the only non-LDS child in my entire school, and that fact was well known. It wasn't so much as an issue when I was very young, but by around age 12-13 all the Mormon girls more or less stopped talking to me after I had no interest in attending their Young Women's groups and little get-togethers. Their church seemed to dominate their social life and I was soon without friends.

And I heard similar comments about my parents being sinners because they drank wine and let us play outside on Sundays.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by SaveMtns

This is not a wholesale condemnation of the Mormons, but it is factual, and we feel others should be warned.

Would that be "factual" like this experience from a non-LDS poster:

Originally Posted by snomom2000

My highschooler loves the school in Riverton (he's bussed about 10 min. to Riverton High).

Or this one:

Originally Posted by aussie_american

have not been "shunned" by anyone, neither have we been "harrassed" to go to church, join the church or move away. The warm weather tends to bring people out of their houses. We been greeted by friendly neighbors when we've been working in our garden or going for a walk around the neighborhood after dinner in the evenings. Frankly I have no idea when I meet people whether they are LDS or not. They don't walk around with the Book of Mormon in their hands or a sign tattooed on their forehead. To me, my neighbours are simply "Dan & Candace" or "Sue & Roger" or "Larry & Cindy" and their assorted children.

or maybe this one:

Originally Posted by Phazed-Coug

I've really got to say the "mormon" rumors that propagate outside of
Utah seem to be unfounded, while in any religion there are extremes,
mormon folk seem to be just like you or I.

or maybe this one:

Originally Posted by lolagranola

I LOVE Utah. We've been here for over 5 years, coming from the east coast. We live in a suburb north of Salt Lake, and it is predominately LDS. There is only one other "non" family in our neighborhood. We have totally been welcomed and included, even have vacationed with some of our neighbors. There are several families that we socialize with on a regular basis ...

Mormons are GREAT neighbors. In my experience they reach out and are accepting. And they know how to have fun.

Or this one:

Originally Posted by Purplegrapes

We moved to the St. George area last year...Honestly I wasn't even aware of this Mormon- Non Mormon thing until I read this site...Personally we haven't seen it, well yet lol...I saw a post in another topic that said its only a problem if you make it one....That works for us, in our case

or this one:

Originally Posted by NYtoVT

Welp, my wife and I have been here (Cedar City) a little bit more than a month and have had absolutley no problems at all with any LDS. It's kind of funny. Being non-LDS, I at least thought that Mormons would have two heads and three eyes on each head and eat you for dinner if you you weren't careful. Nothing could be further from the truth. You can't pick out a Mormon from a crowd no matter how hard you try. I applaud the Mormons for pursuing a wholesome lifestyle. We find EVERYONE friendly and helpful.

or this one:

Originally Posted by Enigma032

I really thought after moving to Eagle Mountain that I was doomed to a life of solitude. Then I got sick, and was forced to rely on a neighbor for help. Everyone got to know me, I got to know them - and I've never had better friends. All of my surrounding neighbor's except for the ones immediately next door are LDS, and EACH ONE of them would give me the shirt off their backs and walk home cold if it meant making me comfortable. Maybe they stare because they are curious? Often times parents get busy in their lives and forget to make room for the new things. Go introduce yourself, see what happens. If they tar and feather you, let me know... I'll eat my words and help you exact revenge!

I'm sorry your kids had a bad experience. Since its your experience, I can't argue it. But what you are claiming is far from universal, so I can't accept it as "fact."

Speaking statistically, I believe in bell curves. I believe Mormons follow bell curves in that you might have the extreme person or even the extreme neighborhood that does have its tensions.

However, I believe Internet posters also follow bell curves. And the people who are at one extreme are motivated to post their "facts" for all to see. Unfortunately, I don't think its the whole truth. It's really too bad, because I don't think the "facts" they post are universal or representative.

[SaveMtns]

Not only is my post factual, but we have multiple friends, associates, and an in-law's family, who left also, some before us and some after, due to the same situation. Yes, "gnubler", as you stated--it was better while the kids were very young, but for us it was around ages 8 or 9 that things changed. One of my young daughter's very best friends stopped talking to her after her LDS baptism at age 8.

I still have a funny card from a friend we left behind who congratulated us on "escaping".

I'm glad it works for some people, but the truth--whether you choose to acknowledge it or not is that our experience was by no means rare.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by SaveMtns

Not only is my post factual, but we have multiple friends, associates, and an in-law's family, who left also, some before us and some after, due to the same situation. Yes, "gnubler", as you stated--it was better while the kids were very young, but for us it was around ages 8 or 9 that things changed. One of my young daughter's very best friends stopped talking to her after her LDS baptism at age 8.

I still have a funny card from a friend we left behind who congratulated us on "escaping".

I'm glad it works for some people, but the truth--whether you choose to acknowledge it or not is that our experience was by no means rare.

Sorry -- what you are describing is the human nature of kids. When I was in 4th grade, I moved from Washington State to Iowa. In Washington I had lots of friends. When I got to Iowa, I had no friends the rest of my 4th grade year. Should I go on to the Iowa forum and warn everyone there that their kids will be "shunned?" What basis should I use? I know its all those "midwesterners" with their unique culture and conservative and closed towns.

As for your daughter's friends stopping speaking to her -- my sister always had some drama going on when one of her friends would quit speaking to her. That's the nature of pre-teen girls.

I'm sure you did have your circle who complained about how bad you had it. Of course they would commiserate with you and congratulate each other on your "escapes." Ever hear of groupthink?

Kids are kids, and at that age exclusion seems to be par for the course. In Utah, some kids may form their cliques based on religion. Unfortunate, but true. And perhaps that should be considered. But exclusion happens everywhere for one reason or other. It stinks to be on the receiving end of -- trust me I know. But for you to say its only a problem in Utah is a fantasy. It could have happened to your kids anywhere.

[SaveMtns]

Explain it away however you need to. This was not the result of a move. It developed over time, in the same neighborhood (the move was earlier) as they went from early elementary ages on.

However, once we did move, things were fine. Yes, you're absolutely right about the preteen girls drama--and we experienced that in our new home, of course. But it was completely different from the ostrasizing in SLC.

We don't operate on groupthink. Our bottom line is that certain parts of SLC feature neighborhoods that are intensely LDS, and we, among many others, decided that the exclusionary attitudes of too many of them were not what we wanted for our children.

The Mormons we know outside of Utah are fine, by the way. The problem seems to be the majority factor.

[Trebek]

Kids are kids, and at that age exclusion seems to be par for the course. In Utah, some kids may form their cliques based on religion. Unfortunate, but true. And perhaps that should be considered. But exclusion happens everywhere for one reason or other. It stinks to be on the receiving end of -- trust me I know. But for you to say its only a problem in Utah is a fantasy. It could have happened to your kids anywhere.

He's not explaining it away, teens are like that. I teach 12 year olds and the drama never ends. I plan to move here with my teenage son. I don't think that this is a problem endemic to the entire state or religion. My son has friends where-ever he goes, due to the fact that he has a very upbeat attitude (unlike me of course). When other kids hassle him he lets it slide off his back, and soon the others see how cool he is.

Coolcats (whom I do not know), showed you many instances that contradict your own. I believe your experience wasn't good, but please don't speak for everybody!

It almost appears to me that you have an axe to grind.