Trying to decide between SLC and Dallas. NYer relocating :) (Salt Lake City: ski resorts, transplants)

[Alkonost]

Hi Everyone,

My better half and I are leaving NYC in the next couple of years (sooner is a possibility) and we’re researching places to relocate to start a family. We’re having trouble choosing from all the wonderful places our beautiful country has to offer.

SLC is on our list, along with North Dallas, Nashville and Las Vegas (Summerland or Henderson). Each has their pros and cons, and we’re weighing each one very carefully. One of us is a consultant so employment upon relocation is not a concern. Honestly our top two picks are Dallas and SLC and we're have a lot of trouble deciding between the two.


We would be very interested in any feedback on SLC from transplants from the Texas Dallas/North Dallas/FTW area, especially with any info on the difference in cost of living. We know that the state income tax raises the cost of living in Utah compared to Dallas, so we're curious about the trade-offs? What’s better? What’s worse? What’s dead even?

Any other feedback is also welcome, as we do have some general questions.

1) What’s the best affluent place to rent while getting to know SLC and the suburbs?
2) What are the property taxes on the East Side neighborhoods along the mountains (Granite and Olympus for example)- a ballpark percentage range would be great!
3) CCW and Castle Doctrine info/experiences- How much red tape is involved getting a permit? Can we defend our home with lethal force? Not that we anticipate this, we know SLC is very safe, but just in case someone breaks into our house I’m curious if I’d be put in jail for defending my family.
4) What are the differences between the neighborhoods along the east mountains versus areas further north and south (south as in south of Draper, north as in north of Bountiful).
5) I haven’t found much info on the neighborhoods on the other side of Wasatch Mtn. park. What is it like living in Synderville & Heber areas? How long is the commute from those areas from the airport?

Also a question for the Tri-state transplants (NY, NJ, CT) on this board if I may: other than the different sense of humor (regarding sarcasm) in SCL, early shop and restaurant closings (comparatively speaking), and fewer fine dining choices, is there anything that has been an outstanding difficulty with adjusting to life in SLC?

I’m also interested to hear about any great ethnic eatieries and shopping places in SLC. I really love the easy access to ethnic foods in NYC and I’d love to get a heads up on what SLC has in this respect.

Thanks everybody

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

You do know you are not going to find that type of food diversity in either city? My son lives north of Dallas (think Frisco) and I visit often. We have 2 small African restaurents, a number of Thai and Chinese, and a lot of Mexican. Many are very good as are the more mainstream type of places. We have a lot of chain restuarents as there are lots of big families who need to eat out inexpensively.

I got my CCW permit with one class, no shooting involved. Had to give fingerprints and DL.

People here are polite and friendly. I personally hate the abrupt in-your-face type of person like my brother who lives in NYC. If you are like that, you will not make many friends.

[Alkonost]

Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah

You do know you are not going to find that type of food diversity in either city? My son lives north of Dallas (think Frisco) and I visit often. We have 2 small African restaurents, a number of Thai and Chinese, and a lot of Mexican. Many are very good as are the more mainstream type of places. We have a lot of chain restuarents as there are lots of big families who need to eat out inexpensively.

I got my CCW permit with one class, no shooting involved. Had to give fingerprints and DL.

People here are polite and friendly. I personally hate the abrupt in-your-face type of person like my brother who lives in NYC. If you are like that, you will not make many friends.

Yes I know I'm not going to find the same food diversity. I just want to know what SLC does have, even though it won't be the same. Thanks for the info on the restaurants and the CCW permit, sadly I can't get a CCW permit here unless I lawyer up, pay $600 in fees in addition to greasing some palms (depressing)...

Are there any good asian grocery stores and a few shops where I can get some more exotic ingredients for cooking? Again, I don't expect a ton of options, but if there's a few noteworthy places in SLC it would make me feel much better. We love to cook, and we love Japanese food especially

As for the NYC attitude, in person I do not have that with non NYers, if you met me you'd never know I was a NYer (I don't even have an accent even though I was born here). I save the attitude for other NYers who are acting dumb, rude or need a general kick in the pants.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Alkonost

Hi Everyone,

My better half and I are leaving NYC in the next couple of years (sooner is a possibility) and we’re researching places to relocate to start a family. We’re having trouble choosing from all the wonderful places our beautiful country has to offer.

SLC is on our list, along with North Dallas, Nashville and Las Vegas (Summerland or Henderson). Each has their pros and cons, and we’re weighing each one very carefully. One of us is a consultant so employment upon relocation is not a concern. Honestly our top two picks are Dallas and SLC and we're have a lot of trouble deciding between the two.


We would be very interested in any feedback on SLC from transplants from the Texas Dallas/North Dallas/FTW area, especially with any info on the difference in cost of living. We know that the state income tax raises the cost of living in Utah compared to Dallas, so we're curious about the trade-offs? What’s better? What’s worse? What’s dead even?

Well, I've never lived in Dallas and have only visited there a couple of times on business, so I won't be very useful when actually making comparisons. I'll see what help I can give you on Salt Lake City, though, and comment on the couple of things I can tell you about Dallas.

Any other feedback is also welcome, as we do have some general questions.

1) What’s the best affluent place to rent while getting to know SLC and the suburbs?

For starters, are you looking to rent a house, a duplex, or an apartment?

2) What are the property taxes on the East Side neighborhoods along the mountains (Granite and Olympus for example)- a ballpark percentage range would be great!

We're in Cottonwood Heights and pay about $2200 a year. I'd say we're probably on the low side of average for an "east side neighborhood along the mountains."

4) What are the differences between the neighborhoods along the east mountains versus areas further north and south (south as in south of Draper, north as in north of Bountiful).

I'd say not much. There are some very nice homes all along the Wasatch Front. The commute to downtown Salt Lake City from the south end of the valley would probably be a bit worse than than from Bountiful to downtown.

5) I haven’t found much info on the neighborhoods on the other side of Wasatch Mtn. park. What is it like living in Synderville & Heber areas? How long is the commute from those areas from the airport?

Personally, I wouldn't want to make that commute. Heber would be a good 45 minutes or more to and from the Salt Lake City airport, and in the winter, even I-80 can be pretty treacherous. If you're looking for a place in the mountains, and can afford it (you sound like that's not a huge concern), I'd say throw out a couple of millions and find something near Deer Valley. You'd still have to deal with the interstate in the winter, but it wouldn't be as bad as if you lived in Heber.

I’m also interested to hear about any great ethnic eatieries and shopping places in SLC. I really love the easy access to ethnic foods in NYC and I’d love to get a heads up on what SLC has in this respect.

Funny you should ask... My 31-year-old son and 29-year-old daughter just left our place. They came over for Father's Day to cook dinner for their dad and me. Much of our dinnertime conversation was centered around dining in Salt Lake City. Both of my kids consider themselves to have pretty discriminating tastes, so they both had a lot to say on the subject. My son concluded by saying, "There are some excellent restaurants in Salt Lake City. You just need to know where to find them." We have never been known for our food choices but this is changing -- slowly, maybe, but it is happening. Dallas is much larger, and the dining options would probably be better there. I can't give you any specifics, though.

By the way, have you visited Utah and Salt Lake City. I think you'd be crazy to move to a new city without first visiting. I love Utah, but it's not for everyone. (I love, love, love, love New York City, too!)

[Alkonost]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Well, I've never lived in Dallas and have only visited there a couple of times on business, so I won't be very useful when actually making comparisons. I'll see what help I can give you on Salt Lake City, though, and comment on the couple of things I can tell you about Dallas.

No worries, any and all info is much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

For starters, are you looking to rent a house, a duplex, or an apartment?

We are looking to rent a large 2 bedroom apartment in an apartment complex for the first year or two. We decided to opt for an apartment complex where staff is on hand to take care of any maintenance issues and grounds upkeep. We don't want to mow a lawn we don't own, or wait a week for fixing a leaking toilet

Originally Posted by Katzpur

We're in Cottonwood Heights and pay about $2200 a year. I'd say we're probably on the low side of average for an "east side neighborhood along the mountains."

Thanks for the info! Cottonwood is on our list of places to check out. So to estimate a ballpark range number, would it sound accurate that am I looking at 2200-4400 depending on slight differences in location and home size?

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I'd say not much. There are some very nice homes all along the Wasatch Front. The commute to downtown Salt Lake City from the south end of the valley would probably be a bit worse than than from Bountiful to downtown.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Personally, I wouldn't want to make that commute. Heber would be a good 45 minutes or more to and from the Salt Lake City airport, and in the winter, even I-80 can be pretty treacherous. If you're looking for a place in the mountains, and can afford it (you sound like that's not a huge concern), I'd say throw out a couple of millions and find something near Deer Valley. You'd still have to deal with the interstate in the winter, but it wouldn't be as bad as if you lived in Heber.

Thanks so much for that info, I think this rules out a mountain home for us. My other half is a really bad driver with terrible depth perception (he has a bad habit of hugging the shoulder grooves that shake the car when driving). The last thing I want is for him to drive on treacherous roads in order to get home. I would freak out every time he pulls out of the driveway during the winter. Thank you so much for pointing this out. I don't trust his driving enough if the roads in those areas can be that bad.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Funny you should ask... My 31-year-old son and 29-year-old daughter just left our place. They came over for Father's Day to cook dinner for their dad and me. Much of our dinnertime conversation was centered around dining in Salt Lake City. Both of my kids consider themselves to have pretty discriminating tastes, so they both had a lot to say on the subject. My son concluded by saying, "There are some excellent restaurants in Salt Lake City. You just need to know where to find them." We have never been known for our food choices but this is changing -- slowly, maybe, but it is happening. Dallas is much larger, and the dining options would probably be better there. I can't give you any specifics, though.

Thanks! As long as there's a good handful of places that are good and consistent we'll be happy. It's nice to hear that there's more options than before, I think the nation is getting more curious when it comes to food, so variety is popping up everywhere.

Originally Posted by Katzpur

By the way, have you visited Utah and Salt Lake City. I think you'd be crazy to move to a new city without first visiting. I love Utah, but it's not for everyone. (I love, love, love, love New York City, too!)

We haven't visited yet, but here's our evil master plan:

We're researching our top 4 or 5 places to death. Once we have picked a definite top two, we will be going out to visit those places for a long weekend to get a first impression of the areas we're interested in living in. After we've visited both places we're going to decide which one to move to, and rent for a year before deciding to buy. In case things don't work out after a year of renting, and it doesn't seem to be the place for us, we'll move to the second place on the list and see how it goes. Right now Dallas and SLC are in a dead heat on paper, and we'll likely be visiting them to decide. At the moment we're still in the homework phase This is an enormous decision for us, we are essentially choosing a place to settle down and start a small family (staying put for 15-20 years). We want to make sure we make the right choice.

[michelleleigh]

As for in your face New Yorkers we never met any when we lived in Beacon NY for 3 yrs. My parents were in NYC for a week last year and my Father and Mother had nothing but nice things to say about the people in NYC. Honestly I think you will be fine specialy in the areas around SLC if not SLC its self and housing is way cheaper than NYC and its surounding areas. I miss the food in NY it was great and the people were great also

[markg91359]

Honestly our top two picks are Dallas and SLC and we're have a lot of trouble deciding between the two.

I've spent a week in Dallas and honestly, I think there is no comparison between it and Salt Lake City, unless you are afraid of any winter snow. Dallas has a hot humid climate. It often is well above 100 there for much of the summer. I would find that kind of weather overwhelming. We have little humidity here since we essentially live in a desert. When we do have hot tempatures (July through August) they tend to be much more mild than those in Dallas.

Salt Lake is within about 300 both north and south of approximately seven national parks. I bet there is no national park anywhere close to Dallas. I don't like the flat topography of that part of the country. In Salt Lake, you'll live in the foothills of the Wasatch Mountains. You'll have hiking in the summer and skiing in the winter.

Honestly, the only area of Dallas I found remotely acceptable was the area around Southern Methodist University (SMU). I suppose in a pinch I could imagine living there.

We would be very interested in any feedback on SLC from transplants from the Texas Dallas/North Dallas/FTW area, especially with any info on the difference in cost of living. We know that the state income tax raises the cost of living in Utah compared to Dallas, so we're curious about the trade-offs? What’s better? What’s worse? What’s dead even?

Property taxes are probably lower in Utah than in about any other state I've compared them with. Maybe they are less in Idaho or Wyoming, but that would be about it. The cost of living isn't bad here. Gas prices and food prices are comparatively low. Housing prices are higher and Dallas might be cheaper in this respect.

1) What’s the best affluent place to rent while getting to know SLC and the suburbs?

Somewhere on the east bench of the city/county. Lots of good places that would fit that category.

2) What are the property taxes on the East Side neighborhoods along the mountains (Granite and Olympus for example)- a ballpark percentage range would be great!

Probably in the 3,000 to 4,000 range per year. Of course, this depends on how "affluent" that "affluent" is. A price range would let me give you a better idea.

3) CCW and Castle Doctrine info/experiences- How much red tape is involved getting a permit? Can we defend our home with lethal force? Not that we anticipate this, we know SLC is very safe, but just in case someone breaks into our house I’m curious if I’d be put in jail for defending my family.

Getting a concealed weapons permit is easier in Utah than in many places because of our state legislature. I've lived here almost 52 years and never needed (or felt I needed) a gun for my protection or my family's protection. To each his own though. I'd probably be more likely to shoot myself in the foot with the gun by accident than need it. This is coming from a person who has always enjoyed shooting targets with rifles and took NRA Hunter Safety Training.

4) What are the differences between the neighborhoods along the east mountains versus areas further north and south (south as in south of Draper, north as in north of Bountiful).

The ones further south are newer. Lots of nice houses all along that east bench.

5) I haven’t found much info on the neighborhoods on the other side of Wasatch Mtn. park. What is it like living in Synderville & Heber areas? How long is the commute from those areas from the airport?

Approximately 30 to 45 minutes. You are referring to the Park City area. Its been heavily "built up" in the last 20-30 years. Lots of people have retired there. Lots of people own a second home there. Home prices are high. You are right next to two ski resorts.

Also a question for the Tri-state transplants (NY, NJ, CT) on this board if I may: other than the different sense of humor (regarding sarcasm) in SCL, early shop and restaurant closings (comparatively speaking), and fewer fine dining choices, is there anything that has been an outstanding difficulty with adjusting to life in SLC?

Not a tri-state resident. Many restaurants are closed on Sunday.

I’m also interested to hear about any great ethnic eatieries and shopping places in SLC. I really love the easy access to ethnic foods in NYC and I’d love to get a heads up on what SLC has in this respect.

The Gateway Mall is a good one for fancy shopping. When the downtown renovation is finished in a couple of years there will be lots of good shopping there too. Salt Lake has a good selection of restaurants compared to other similar sized cities, ethnic and otherwise. I don't see any issue with choice of foods.

[Alkonost]

Originally Posted by michelleleigh

As for in your face New Yorkers we never met any when we lived in Beacon NY for 3 yrs. My parents were in NYC for a week last year and my Father and Mother had nothing but nice things to say about the people in NYC. Honestly I think you will be fine specialy in the areas around SLC if not SLC its self and housing is way cheaper than NYC and its surounding areas. I miss the food in NY it was great and the people were great also

Beacon is a nice area!

I've found native NYC people to be OK, but rather misunderstood. I've had more manner related problems with the non-native ones who move to NYC from other places but make the move for all the wrong reasons; those types are more interested in moving to the big apple for bragging rights rather than for a love of what the city really has to offer in terms of arts & culture. I've had a LOT of trouble with those types.

I love the food in NYC too, but we feel that the quality has been slipping. There's no shortage of fantastic meals if you're willing to spend $100 per person or more, but if you just want a decent meal for less it's very difficult to find consistent places. Also, cheap but good eats are getting very difficult to find, and the wonderful mom and pop places have been replaced by banks and pharmacies since they can't afford the lease any more Gentrification has become a double edged sword in NYC, while it's a lot safer than it used to be, its a lot less fun, less interesting and magnitudes more expensive.

[ShouldIMoveOrStayPut...?]

Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah

I got my CCW permit with one class, no shooting involved. Had to give fingerprints and DL.

Belle, remind me not to take too strong an objection to any moderator decisions going forward now that I know you are "packing"...LOL

And no changing your username to Belle Starr thank you...

Originally Posted by Alkonost

As for the NYC attitude, in person I do not have that with non NYers, if you met me you'd never know I was a NYer (I don't even have an accent even though I was born here). I save the attitude for other NYers who are acting dumb, rude or need a general kick in the pants.

I don't consider myself the typical New Yorker by any stretch of the imagination, and I wind up scratcing my head someitmes when socializing with Utahn's. The main problem is forwardness, even if done in a friendly respectful manner it can be rebuffed.
With humor the issue goes beyond the extraction of sarcasm, humor, joking around and friendly banter in general is much less abstract and far more black and white.
You will not realise how much of a New Yorker you are until you spend a good amount of time or live in one of your target areas.

Originally Posted by Alkonost

5) I haven’t found much info on the neighborhoods on the other side of Wasatch Mtn. park. What is it like living in Synderville & Heber areas? How long is the commute from those areas from the airport?

As Katz stated I don't think Heber would be a good choice for you. South and North Snyderville basin in the Park City area covers alot of ground, I'm guessing you don't want a 3 acre mini-ranch on a gravel road where you can keep horses.
Kimball Junction is basically right at the I-80 exit for Park City, very easy to get to SLC and airport (of course, not during times when the roads are hazardous due to weather as Katz pointed out).

But Kimball has some great townhomes, condo's and other housing choices for rental or purchase. There's the Redstone Center with great shopping and eating with a Whole Foods Market that would have many items for you to prepare any of the cuisines you mention.
And Park City is right down the road with many upscale dining options, again, I believe all the categories you mention are covered. Park City also has much more to offer than I've mentioned here, far too much to cover without the post running on.

[Alkonost]

Originally Posted by markg91359

I've spent a week in Dallas and honestly, I think there is no comparison between it and Salt Lake City, unless you are afraid of any winter snow. Dallas has a hot humid climate. It often is well above 100 there for much of the summer. I would find that kind of weather overwhelming. We have little humidity here since we essentially live in a desert. When we do have hot tempatures (July through August) they tend to be much more mild than those in Dallas.

Salt Lake is within about 300 both north and south of approximately seven national parks. I bet there is no national park anywhere close to Dallas. I don't like the flat topography of that part of the country. In Salt Lake, you'll live in the foothills of the Wasatch Mountains. You'll have hiking in the summer and skiing in the winter.

Honestly, the only area of Dallas I found remotely acceptable was the area around Southern Methodist University (SMU). I suppose in a pinch I could imagine living there.

Thanks Markg. This is one of the things we're thinking long and hard about. It seems the cons of North Dallas compared to SLC is the scenery and the summer heat. While Texas has no state income tax the summers are brutal, and there's not much hope for a lot of snow. On the other hand SLC has state income tax, but is dripping with scenery, tons of outdoor things to do, and winter (I love, love winter). Again, on the other hand Dallas has more shopping and dining options. Both SLC and North Dallas have great schools, friendly people and a wonderful family atmosphere. It's a really tough decision, we may end up visiting SLC during the summer to see how the outdoors feel when the weather is at it's worst.

Originally Posted by markg91359

Property taxes are probably lower in Utah than in about any other state I've compared them with. Maybe they are less in Idaho or Wyoming, but that would be about it. The cost of living isn't bad here. Gas prices and food prices are comparatively low. Housing prices are higher and Dallas might be cheaper in this respect.

Thanks, with the cost of living in both N.Dallas and SLC both being low, it makes it a tough choice.

Originally Posted by markg91359

Probably in the 3,000 to 4,000 range per year. Of course, this depends on how "affluent" that "affluent" is. A price range would let me give you a better idea.

Since we're not going to have a large family (maximim 2 kids, but probably 1) we're probably looking at a 4-5 br house in the 500-650k range. While we'd like a plot of land large enough to have some privacy from our neighbors and room for a nice vegetable garden, we're not looking for a compound or farm-sized property.

Originally Posted by markg91359

Getting a concealed weapons permit is easier in Utah than in many places because of our state legislature. I've lived here almost 52 years and never needed (or felt I needed) a gun for my protection or my family's protection. To each his own though. I'd probably be more likely to shoot myself in the foot with the gun by accident than need it. This is coming from a person who has always enjoyed shooting targets with rifles and took NRA Hunter Safety Training.

YAY! Good to read that. We're not expecting to need to use weapons, but the 2nd amendment is very important to us. Where we live now there is a staunch anti-gun sentiment, even for hunting and recreational target shooting.

Originally Posted by markg91359

The ones further south are newer. Lots of nice houses all along that east bench.

Quick question, I've seen the term "east bench" used a lot in the SLC forums, but I don't know exactly what it means. Does it refer to the neighborhoods nestled long the east of the mountains?

Originally Posted by markg91359

Approximately 30 to 45 minutes. You are referring to the Park City area. Its been heavily "built up" in the last 20-30 years. Lots of people have retired there. Lots of people own a second home there. Home prices are high. You are right next to two ski resorts.

Thanks for the info, it sounds great. It was pointed out by some else that the roads to/from the area can be a bit scary during the winter, and my hubs is a terrible driver so the mountains may not be the right place for us. In hindsight the drive to the airport may be a bit too long compared to what we're looking for. So something closer to SLC may be a better choice for us after all.

Originally Posted by markg91359

The Gateway Mall is a good one for fancy shopping. When the downtown renovation is finished in a couple of years there will be lots of good shopping there too. Salt Lake has a good selection of restaurants compared to other similar sized cities, ethnic and otherwise. I don't see any issue with choice of foods.

Whenever a city invests in it's downtown area, good things happen!