Air Quality/Inversions (costs, transportation, land)

[movingonagain777]

The thing about the inversions is that they do eventually blow out. Perhaps this makes it easier for people to tell themselves it's not that serious of an issue? Yes it was annoying yesterday, but skies are blue today and we can worry about addressing it later.

Kick the can down the road...

You are absolutely right SLCPUNK.

However this is not going away soon from what I have read. I disagree that it's all urban living. Sure it's a contributor but the toxic chemical soup is coming from the industry here and something needs to be done about it. I hope that folks are rallying up. Hopefully there will be more of a leadership attitude in this dire situation and less of a following what were told or waiting for someone else to do something. I have been writing letters to every email address I can get my hands on.

There is only 2 days left to make our voices heard on the expansion of the Davis County refinery and I am hoping more than two of us have done this.

If we were in another State folks would be really making noise in regard to this unacceptable existence. There should be more of an uproar over this. Where is the kool-aid!

[movingonagain777]

When a good air mass goes bad | UCAR - University Corporation for Atmospheric Research

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

You are absolutely right SLCPUNK.

However this is not going away soon from what I have read. I disagree that it's all urban living. Sure it's a contributor but the toxic chemical soup is coming from the industry here and something needs to be done about it.

Yep, it's all SUBurban living that's doing it. Again, industry is accountable for only 17% of PM2.5, the most harmful particulates. (And regarding the inversion itself, some of the industry--like Kennecott--releases its emissions ABOVE the inversion layer. So they're not contributing to the gross visible stuff down here AT ALL.)

If you could tackle 41% of the problem or 17% of the problem first, which would you do? Obviously 41% (cars), especially when the 17% has already been regulated and regulated and regulated and isn't going to get much better than it currently is without time-consuming structural changes and significant technological investment.

We could stop driving so much, and impose sanctions on driving, immediately--without considerable expense--and see a huge impact.

In short, if you got in a car and drove in the last few weeks (particularly if you were alone in the car), you don't have much room to complain about industry.

[movingonagain777]

Yep, it's all SUBurban living that's doing it. Again, industry is accountable for only 17% of PM2.5, the most harmful particulates. (And regarding the inversion itself, some of the industry--like Kennecott--releases its emissions ABOVE the inversion layer. So they're not contributing to the gross visible stuff down here AT ALL.)

You are just kidding...right? With no wind to blow it out of our area where do you think it goes? Science can simplify it for you. It's not just Kennecott it's the refinery's as well. We are breathing sulfur dioxide which is released by all of the industry here. It's statistically known and recorded that individuals who live in a heavily industrial area such as we do are being exposed to sulfur dioxide by breathing it. Smelting copper or the processing or burning of coal or oil exposes us to this on a daily basis 24 hours a day. We don't have an exhaust fan sucking it out of the Valley into heaven for filtering.

Our pollution here is monitored and recorded so we know what the out put is. It has been established that Rio Tinto Corporation is our biggest polluter in the the Salt Lake Valley. They emit 10 times more pollution next to the Chevron refinery. Kennecott has reported an out put of 6,235 pounds of lead emissions from the smelter smokestack per year. We are living in a toxic soup mixture of deadly heavy metals which consists of lead, cadmium, arsenic and mercury due to this corporation.

That's a huge part of our problem here. It's toxic waste in the air from these plants who don't have sufficient filtering systems and furthermore have no business having this type of plant in a highly populated area. I am unaware of any recent exhaust systems being installed recently to take the pollution up to the heavens.

What goes up must come down. Our atmosphere is only capable of cleaning up certain gases at certain levels. Again refer to statistical science.

I agree our cars, diesel trucks, dry cleaners, printing plants etc do contribute to this mess as well but I am not buying that it is the biggest source of the problem.

The proof is in the inversion. We are all breathing it, smelling it and tasting it. We are all getting these particles stuck in our lungs with no real awareness how we are being affected by it until we start having symptoms.

Yes corporations who are not protecting their local populations have to be held accountable just like we do.

[movingonagain777]

In short, if you got in a car and drove in the last few weeks (particularly if you were alone in the car), you don't have much room to complain about industry.

Luckily I am able to work from my home and don't want to venture out in this muck. I only go if I absolutely have to. I have absolutely limited my time on the road.

[movingonagain777]

Statistical referral of information regarding Kennecott:

Rio Tinto/Kennecott is Violating the Clean Air Act « Utah Physicians for Healthy Environment

[SLCPUNK]

Originally Posted by Zionide

Yep, it's all SUBurban living that's doing it. Again, industry is accountable for only 17% of PM2.5,

Where are you getting the data? I don't recall any of the articles posted saying this.

How is our pollution created?

Originally Posted by Zionide

In short, if you got in a car and drove in the last few weeks (particularly if you were alone in the car), you don't have much room to complain about industry.

And that's a completely bogus argument too.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

You are just kidding...right? With no wind to blow it out of our area where do you think it goes?

Even when there's not wind in the valley, there's wind above the inversion layer.

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

Science can simplify it for you. It's not just Kennecott it's the refinery's as well. We are breathing sulfur dioxide which is released by all of the industry here. It's statistically known and recorded that individuals who live in a heavily industrial area such as we do are being exposed to sulfur dioxide by breathing it. Smelting copper or the processing or burning of coal or oil exposes us to this on a daily basis 24 hours a day. We don't have an exhaust fan sucking it out of the Valley into heaven for filtering.

All true. And cars that burn fuel of any kind contribute plenty to that, too.

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

Our pollution here is monitored and recorded so we know what the out put is. It has been established that Rio Tinto Corporation is our biggest polluter in the the Salt Lake Valley. They emit 10 times more pollution next to the Chevron refinery. Kennecott has reported an out put of 6,235 pounds of lead emissions from the smelter smokestack per year.

Depends on your definition of pollution. If you're talking impurities in the air, then sure. If you're talking health-hazardous pollution... not so much. The car-driving residents of the valley are the biggest polluters.

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

We are living in a toxic soup mixture of deadly heavy metals which consists of lead, cadmium, arsenic and mercury due to this corporation.

Just because these metals exist in the air doesn't mean the air is toxic. Most the groundwater in the valley (including what we drink from the tap) has arsenic in it, just not enough to be harmful.

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

That's a huge part of our problem here. It's toxic waste in the air from these plants who don't have sufficient filtering systems and furthermore have no business having this type of plant in a highly populated area. I am unaware of any recent exhaust systems being installed recently to take the pollution up to the heavens.

Industrial stationary emission sources in Salt Lake County all meet the filtration requirements of the EPA, DAQ, and the Salt Lake Valley Health Department; they did not 5 years ago or so, but they do now---hence the drop in PM2.5 contributed by industrial sources. And the Kennecott smelter stack, at over 1,200 feet high, is tall enough to be above the inversion layer. So no, it was not installed recently; it has always been that way.

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

I agree our cars, diesel trucks, dry cleaners, printing plants etc do contribute to this mess as well but I am not buying that it is the biggest source of the problem.

Well, even according to SLCPUNK's linked graphic, cars and trucks are the largest contributor.

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

The proof is in the inversion. We are all breathing it, smelling it and tasting it. We are all getting these particles stuck in our lungs with no real awareness how we are being affected by it until we start having symptoms.

Only PM2.5 particles are small enough to get deep in your lungs and cause problems, and studies indicate it takes regular, long-term exposure to be problematic---unless there are existing respiratory issues such as asthma.

I'm not saying industry isn't a problem and shouldn't be held accountable--even more than they already are. But primarily blaming industry is one of the biggest things that allows the locals to keep their heads in the sand and driving their cars without thinking twice about it. It's what makes people think it's okay to buy a house in Draper and commute to Salt Lake. "Hey," they think, "It's just my one car...it's nowhere near as bad as Kennecott. They should just get the smelter to be clean and then we won't have to worry about it," and they keep on driving.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by movingonagain777

Statistical referral of information regarding Kennecott:

Rio Tinto/Kennecott is Violating the Clean Air Act « Utah Physicians for Healthy Environment

While UPHE's mission is admirable, they're not exactly objective or without an agenda. I don't even disagree with their agenda, but they're not a reliable source for information. Dr. Moench will twist anything to get his point across.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by SLCPUNK

Where are you getting the data? I don't recall any of the articles posted saying this.
How is our pollution created?

I work for a health-focused nonprofit organization with a staff of environmental health scientists. One branch of scientists, in particular, studies air quality full time. And I talk to them a lot. The 17% actually comes from the same source as you've linked: DAQ.

Note that your graphic says industry contributes 28% of the *gases* in the air. It also says gas emissions are converted to PM2.5 in the atmosphere. Well, only a *portion* of those gases are converted to the health-hazardous PM2.5; usually around 50%, depending on the environmental factors---which would put industry at 14%. DEQ/DAQ tends to use 17% rather than 14% to err on the side of caution.

Originally Posted by SLCPUNK

And that's a completely bogus argument too.

Why? Because you don't like what it says about you and your driving habits? Or that industry isn't the be-all, end-all scapegoat for this problem?

Seriously---I'm not a fan of these industries; I think it's abhorrent what Rio Tinto has done to one of our mountain ranges, and I'd love to see Sinclair's refinery relocated to the west desert or someplace else remote. But the enraged finger-pointing is statistically and scientifically misplaced, and all this focus on industry merely gives the average citizen a convenient and believable "out" when it comes to personal responsibility for his or her share of the problem.