Possible Move (Washington, Richfield, Nephi: appointed, apartment, motel)

[NostalgicWashingtonian]

Okay, here goes...

I am married with three small children, the youngest of whom was born only a few days ago. My wife and I have been talking about moving to central Utah next year, possibly to Mona or Nephi. We happened to spend a night at a motel in Richfield earlier this year, and I particularly liked the area.

As my user name demonstrates, I am from Washington state but increasingly sad about the changes that have taken place here during the last several decades. When we come home to our apartment we have to smell marijuana that our neighbors can now legally smoke. I am depressed by all the tattoos I see, along with the rebellious, disrespectful attitudes, the "repressive tolerance" that celebrates the bizarre and demonizes the traditional, and the odd, hypocritical inability of some of the oh-so-tolerant locals to mind their own business.

These are not the sort of influences I want around my children as they grow to adulthood. Although neither I nor my wife is LDS, I greatly admire the manners and mores of observant Mormons. Their behavior reminds me of the way many non-Mormons behaved in the pre-hippie era. I like their values of modesty, self-reliance, and traditional family roles, as well as their respect for our Constitution and the wisdom of the men who wrote it. These same values used to be normal in my beloved Washington; now they're almost marginalized.

My chief concern when I think about moving to Utah is for my children's acceptance by their LDS peers as they mature. I recall with sadness the story that a friend of mine in western Washington told me about being essentially ostracized during adolescence by her fellow high school students in a heavily-Mormon small town in Wyoming. Her only apparent "fault" was not being LDS.

It's my understanding that Mormons don't have a problem with their small children making friends with other kids who are not Mormon, but they frown on their kids having non-Mormon friends once they get into their teens. Presumably this is because they don't want their children led astray, and I sympathize with that desire. I don't want my kids "led astray" from the values I hope to instill in them, either. But everyone needs good friends, and I want that for my kids.

We're not a perfect family and we're not perfect people. But we're not bad people, and I would hope our neighbors would recognize that in us.

[kaytidid]

Those neighbors that would appreciate your friendship will recognize that in you. We are not LDS. We have two daughters; 17 and 13 and both of them have a mixture of LDS and non friends. They are often asked to attend LDS functions with their friends (which of course we allow if they want!). They are never pressured to convert and their parents certainly don't have a problem that we are not. Maybe it depends on the area where you live? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that our girls are good kids who get good grades, don't swear, are respectful? I couldn't tell you for sure. The only thing I do know for sure is that we have never, ever, EVER had a problem with our neighbors "shunning" us.

[Ankhharu]

People in Utah have tattoos too.

[skibarbie]

And smoke pot while they get those tatoo's....

[MisfitBanana]

I remember my mom took me to a small private boarding school in a small town in Utah to look at - she thought it might be a better choice than my public school in California. The girl assigned to show me around (she would've been my roommate if I went there) spent about an hour telling me about this particular area where people would get together to smoke, smoke pot, drink, etc. I had no interest in that (or in the school), so it didn't work out. Still, if anyone thinks that a small town/city in Utah = no drinking, no drugs, no tattoos, no piercings, etc., then they're in for a surprise.

That said, OP, I've written before about how non-LDS children may feel excluded sometimes. Not because Mormons are mean, but rather because there are lots of church activities during the week. For instance, from 12-18 there's mutual activity (usually separated into girls and boys groups, as well as by age group, but sometimes combined), there's Saturday night dances (14-18), there's family home evening, and there could be other activities like baptisms for the dead, service projects, etc. During the summer there's also girl's camp, as well as youth conference, and there's some other camp that it seems only Utah Mormons do (or at least we didn't do it when I was growing up in California). My daughter is 13, and I've noticed that she's slowly started talking more about her Mormon friends at home (she attends church while I don't), and talks a lot less about her non-Mormon friends. It's natural that when you spend so much time at church activities with a certain set of kids, that you'll end up becoming better friends with them than the kids you only see at school.

Just something to think about. There are non-Mormons who are perfectly happy living in Utah. However, I do think it's easier for non-Mormons to live in SLC (or at least near it) since there are more non-Mormons around to make friends with. Also, please note that the Mormon church does have an incredibly strong influence here. I like to tell people how the Mormon church is just referred to as "The Church" here. As if it's the only one.

[kletter1mann]

Perhaps then, Wyoming would be a better fit. You'll get all the Dick Cheney stuff without the LDS issues to contend with.

[Ankhharu]

Originally Posted by NostalgicWashingtonian

As my user name demonstrates, I am from Washington state but increasingly sad about the changes that have taken place here during the last several decades. When we come home to our apartment we have to smell marijuana that our neighbors can now legally smoke. I am depressed by all the tattoos I see, along with the rebellious, disrespectful attitudes, the "repressive tolerance" that celebrates the bizarre and demonizes the traditional, and the odd, hypocritical inability of some of the oh-so-tolerant locals to mind their own business.

This has really struck a nerve with me. Maybe because my parents had similar beliefs and their attempts to shield us from the "evils" of the world. So i've witnessed first hand what kind of upbringing this type of mindest brings. Or maybe because the mindset reeks of the old time mindset that reigned supreme during histories darkest times. When I hear demonize the traditional, I can't help but think OP probably has an issue with the LGBT community marrying, minorities, etc. As if the old days were some sort of utopia of peace and love. When the truth is, sex was (and still is for the most part in the US) demonized, woman were viewed as subservient and not as individuals, segregation, etc. A time when tolerance was frowned upon. Anti-Marijuana proponents make me chuckle, because many of them smoke cigarrettes and/or drink alcohol. I don't think I need to toss out the numbers to how damaging and destructive these 2 substances are. But what's better is, there are 0 deaths attributued to MJ, where as over 23K people die each year due to prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are killing people, but because it's "legal", it's ok. I don't have a problem with people who choose not to partake in any substance. I completely understand not wanting kids being around it. But I do have a problem with people who judge others who do, considering all the legal drugs that are far more devastating.

I also have no respect for anyone who doesn't question authority. To take orders from any and all without question is the type of subservient obedience that has allowed dictators and their ruthless oppression to exist. The Holocaust would have never happened had people under Hitler, questioned his authority immediately. Instead of blindly obeying orders. There are countless examples.
And to go so far as look down upon people with tattoos, that just takes the cake. I feel sorry for OP's children. Teaching children to judge a book by it's cover. Don't like tattoo's? Don't get one, but to associate tattoos as strictly something bad people have, is short sighted and ignorant.

[kletter1mann]

Originally Posted by Ankhharu

This has really struck a nerve with me. Maybe because my parents had similar beliefs and their attempts to shield us from the "evils" of the world. So i've witnessed first hand what kind of upbringing this type of mindest brings. Or maybe because the mindset reeks of the old time mindset that reigned supreme during histories darkest times. When I hear demonize the traditional, I can't help but think OP probably has an issue with the LGBT community marrying, minorities, etc. As if the old days were some sort of utopia of peace and love. When the truth is, sex was (and still is for the most part in the US) demonized, woman were viewed as subservient and not as individuals, segregation, etc. A time when tolerance was frowned upon. Anti-Marijuana proponents make me chuckle, because many of them smoke cigarrettes and/or drink alcohol. I don't think I need to toss out the numbers to how damaging and destructive these 2 substances are. But what's better is, there are 0 deaths attributued to MJ, where as over 23K people die each year due to prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are killing people, but because it's "legal", it's ok. I don't have a problem with people who choose not to partake in any substance. I completely understand not wanting kids being around it. But I do have a problem with people who judge others who do, considering all the legal drugs that are far more devastating.

I also have no respect for anyone who doesn't question authority. To take orders from any and all without question is the type of subservient obedience that has allowed dictators and their ruthless oppression to exist. The Holocaust would have never happened had people under Hitler, questioned his authority immediately. Instead of blindly obeying orders. There are countless examples.
And to go so far as look down upon people with tattoos, that just takes the cake. I feel sorry for OP's children. Teaching children to judge a book by it's cover. Don't like tattoo's? Don't get one, but to associate tattoos as strictly something bad people have, is short sighted and ignorant.

Nice post. Well said.

[CCSLC]

Ironic to be worried about one's children being ostracized when one is effectually demonizing others who are not from a "traditional" family situation.

[cedarite]

The original poster would probably be disappointed when Utah doesn't live up to his idealized hopes. LDS and non LDS alike, we're human here with all the good and bad that comes with, we have plenty of colorful personalities here, and many of us here in the southern half of the state don't actually care what anyone else is doing so long as they don't actually hurt or otherwise damage someone else. Sure, there are nattering busy bodies, but that's like anywhere else too. I would also caution the OP against judging character based on appearance in Utah, some of our biggest fraud kingpins and most destructive and insidious criminals have counted upon a clean cut appearance engendering trust, a classic "wolf in sheeps' clothing" approach to targeting potential victims.