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Old 01-23-2014, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Central City, SLC
762 posts, read 2,110,970 times
Reputation: 782

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcisive View Post
I found it very interesting that yesterday I heard on the news they have determined that approximately 10% of the pollution we experience is actually transported via the jetstream from Bejing China. It's amazing that that junk travels that far and we get to have it on hand.
That's false. "We" (as in the residents of the Salt Lake Valley/Wasatch Front) are NOT affected by pollution transported via jetstream from Beijing.

The study to which you're referring (from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences) found that approximately 10% of the pollution experienced by Los Angeles and parts of the eastern U.S. came from "emissions from export manufacturing in China."

The study in no way referenced Utah or the Salt Lake area, and it's highly unlikely that pollution of measurable concentration levels---particularly PM2.5---traveled over the Sierra Nevada to us.

Please don't give the car-pollution-deniers on this forum any more "excuses" about why we all (and they, individually) supposedly can't help improve our air. They---not China and not big industry---are the largest pollutant contributors in the Salt Lake area.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: A Place With REAL People
3,260 posts, read 6,727,282 times
Reputation: 5105
Gee sorry. Glad I just have my little commute of 6 miles every day to work, for which there is NO alternative to my auto. It's at least a newer auto with good gas mileage and minimum of toxic output compared to the older cars. I don't make unnecessary trips either. Doing what I can :-)
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:24 PM
 
Location: east millcreek
835 posts, read 2,070,346 times
Reputation: 530
My "disclaimer" is quite clear in post #14 if you had bothered to read the thread...
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:29 AM
mlb
 
Location: North Monterey County
4,971 posts, read 4,429,856 times
Reputation: 7903
Also - just because you can SEE the pollution in winter - doesn't mean it goes away in summer.....
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Central City, SLC
762 posts, read 2,110,970 times
Reputation: 782
While there's still pollution in the summer, it's considerably less of a health risk then since there's no temperature inversion trapping it in the valley. Summer pollution here is comparable to every other city this size since there's no longer a weather complication introduced by unique geography.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:54 PM
 
Location: SLC
3,026 posts, read 2,152,130 times
Reputation: 8794
You will find the following link interesting: PM2.5 in Salt Lake Valley. Taking the liberty of quoting from the source -

Quote:
How does PM2.5 vary with elevation in the Salt Lake Valley?

A recent study measured PM2.5 concentrations on a line running up the Avenues residential district in north Salt Lake City. Although the data set covered only part of one winter, PM2.5 concentrations were found to generally decrease with elevation above the lowest few hundred feet of the valley, suggesting that residents living at higher elevations might suffer less exposure to pollutants. But, the aerosol layer typically extends to elevations well above the valley floor, often enveloping all residential areas. The pollution events sometimes break up in such a way that the highest elevations are the first to experience clean air.
It was skibarbie's post below that got me looking into the topic, particularly as we chose to live at a higher elevation precisely to lower our exposure, to the extent we possibly could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibarbie View Post
Common sense on the "death zone" and physics too... Heavier particulate, aka pm2.5, sink to the valley floor.
Lighter, more toxic crap is at the top of "the inversion" which is ususally around 4800 and above depending upon the depth of the inversion.
I had a customer stop in this afternoon that was bragging about "living above the inversion". I did not have the heart to tell her the poison in the air at her elevation was worse than those that live below her...
We can only hope that our stupid legislators will punish MagCorp and the other violators... Cars are not the problem...
If the topic is of interest to you, do look at the paper: Figure 5 shows the gains from the first few hundred feet in elevation from the valley are quite significant.

Last edited by kavm; 01-26-2014 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:29 PM
 
Location: east millcreek
835 posts, read 2,070,346 times
Reputation: 530
But it's the scary smaller particulates that "float to the top"....aka the death zone according to my fellow atmospheric science buddies...
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:12 PM
 
Location: SLC
3,026 posts, read 2,152,130 times
Reputation: 8794
The paper specifically deals with PM2.5 particulates and, seems to me, casts serious doubt over your position. You may, of course, choose to believe whatever source you please. For me, a scientific study such as one I referenced has considerably greater validity. If you or your fellow atmospheric science buddies would care to share some actual research that sheds further light on this matter, I and others here would be quite interested.

PS: For those interested in looking at further research on this topic, I came across another interesting, though less specific research paper - looking at vertical distribution of particulates by floors in a high-rise buildings in Hong Kong, among other things. While very different setting, nothing I came across suggests increasing concentration of particulates with rise in elevation.

Last edited by kavm; 01-26-2014 at 05:46 PM..
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Central City, SLC
762 posts, read 2,110,970 times
Reputation: 782
PM2.5 are the smaller, most health-dangerous particulates. And, at least according to the study kavm referenced, they decrease as elevation increases. Other studies may offer contradictory findings, of course, but I haven't seen one yet that does, let alone a reputable one.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Connectucut shore but on a hill
2,617 posts, read 6,995,268 times
Reputation: 3343
Quote:
Originally Posted by kavm View Post
You will find the following link interesting: PM2.5 in Salt Lake Valley. Taking the liberty of quoting from the source -<<<snip>>>>
Great find. this is exactly what I've been looking for. Thanks!
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