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Old 06-10-2014, 12:49 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,400 posts, read 5,228,762 times
Reputation: 2691

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah View Post
Please note only ONE of these posters actually lives in UT. Evryone else knows it's z non-issue.
My house just sold. So, after posting here for a year (+/- ?) I'll be moving out late July.

By coincidence we stayed up at Snowbird last fall while Oktoberfest was going on and had a great time. It was well attended and loads of fun. No, it's not Munich (which is an unspeakable zoo IMO). Still, without real beer it's not even "Oktoberfest," it's something else. I'm not sure why it's a nonissue unless you're somehow 100% certain that it's all a tempest in a teapot and in the end it will go on unchanged.
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Mostly in my head
19,817 posts, read 55,838,417 times
Reputation: 18999
We may all be old codgers before it happens. Things that take state-wide support don't change easily. Note I am NOT LDS.
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Old 06-10-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
543 posts, read 1,214,393 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah View Post
We may all be old codgers before it happens. Things that take state-wide support don't change easily. Note I am NOT LDS.
Reading articles on it this doesn't seem to require any changes other than the DABC interpreting the rules differently than they have in the past. Hopefully the bad PR is enough to get them to back off but it doesn't seem like there is anything to really stop them other than public outcry (from what I've read anyway).
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Central City, SLC
763 posts, read 1,675,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavm View Post
Why does our moderator think it is a non-issue. To whom?
Well, to be fair, our moderator doesn't live here anymore, either.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:54 AM
 
Location: SLC
465 posts, read 422,567 times
Reputation: 811
I would like to thank our moderator. It cannot be an easy task - given that comments on the internet can get out of hand. I could never do it myself, but tip my hat to better person than me!

On this matter - I do find our State Liquor Commission to be over the top. It is especially troubling to me as I hardly drink any alcohol I find it unfortunate that the mix of religious and political considerations in this state has resulted in such laws and regulations. It is ironic that often the same people who rile against big government and regulation do not mind it when it suites their taste.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,881 posts, read 22,020,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavm View Post
On this matter - I do find our State Liquor Commission to be over the top. It is especially troubling to me as I hardly drink any alcohol I find it unfortunate that the mix of religious and political considerations in this state has resulted in such laws and regulations
I'm a practicing Mormon, and I agree!
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: SLC
465 posts, read 422,567 times
Reputation: 811
Thank you very much! Most Mormons I know would agree as well, so I think it is less of a religious issue than it is made out to be. It's the establishment - politicians and possibly in the LDS hierarchy - that run the state that seem to be missing the big picture!
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,010 posts, read 4,780,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfitt View Post
No beer for Oktoberfest? CRAZY!
Crazy, but hilarious! Kind of like skiing without snow or Las Vegas deciding to close its casinos for a weekend.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:27 PM
 
Location: SLC, UT
1,571 posts, read 2,278,513 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kavm View Post
Thank you very much! Most Mormons I know would agree as well, so I think it is less of a religious issue than it is made out to be. It's the establishment - politicians and possibly in the LDS hierarchy - that run the state that seem to be missing the big picture!
Eh, not sure about that, only because I, too, know a lot of Mormons (I grew up Mormon in California, moved to Utah 7 years ago, and have many Mormon family and friends here), and I've met many who are very dismissive of other people wanting to drink or other hot-button issues (like gay marriage). Often, I'll hear a comments like:
  • "Well, it's wrong to drink..."
  • "Uh oh! I guess people have to try harder if they want to drink so badly!" (Or other 'humorous' versions - sort of like a wink or a nudge about how funny it is that non-Mormons can't get what they want.)
  • "Well, I won't tell anyone else what they should do, but I don't believe in drinking..."
  • "Well, The Church teaches against it." (They may add in other reasoning, like, "I believe it's a detriment to society" but they'll often stick in a comment about The Church's beliefs, too.)
  • "It's fine what other people want to do on their own time, but I don't see why they have to bring everyone else into it by trying to change the laws." My response: "Well, if it's illegal to do what they want to do on their own time, then that's why they would need to change the laws." Their answer: "Well, I don't believe they should be doing what they're doing anyway." Me: "Why?" "It's against my beliefs."
  • "If they don't like our laws here, they can move somewhere that aligns more with their values."

Whenever I engage the person (like in the 5th example above) about why they believe that, it always comes back to their religious (Mormon) beliefs.

I definitely think the LDS hierarchy thinks that more Mormons care about these issues than actually do (especially outside Utah), but without a doubt, there's also many Mormons who are very dismissive of other people wanting laws changed towards something that won't reflect their Mormon values. The dismissive attitude is one of the reasons, at least in my opinion, that 'Utah Mormons' are so different than non-Utah Mormons. The Mormons here are in the majority and I think their general attitudes regarding non-Mormon people/issues reflect their majority status.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:22 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,400 posts, read 5,228,762 times
Reputation: 2691
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisfitBanana View Post
Eh, not sure about that, only because I, too, know a lot of Mormons (I grew up Mormon in California, moved to Utah 7 years ago, and have many Mormon family and friends here), and I've met many who are very dismissive of other people wanting to drink or other hot-button issues (like gay marriage). Often, I'll hear a comments like:
  • "Well, it's wrong to drink..."
  • "Uh oh! I guess people have to try harder if they want to drink so badly!" (Or other 'humorous' versions - sort of like a wink or a nudge about how funny it is that non-Mormons can't get what they want.)
  • "Well, I won't tell anyone else what they should do, but I don't believe in drinking..."
  • "Well, The Church teaches against it." (They may add in other reasoning, like, "I believe it's a detriment to society" but they'll often stick in a comment about The Church's beliefs, too.)
  • "It's fine what other people want to do on their own time, but I don't see why they have to bring everyone else into it by trying to change the laws." My response: "Well, if it's illegal to do what they want to do on their own time, then that's why they would need to change the laws." Their answer: "Well, I don't believe they should be doing what they're doing anyway." Me: "Why?" "It's against my beliefs."
  • "If they don't like our laws here, they can move somewhere that aligns more with their values."

Whenever I engage the person (like in the 5th example above) about why they believe that, it always comes back to their religious (Mormon) beliefs.

I definitely think the LDS hierarchy thinks that more Mormons care about these issues than actually do (especially outside Utah), but without a doubt, there's also many Mormons who are very dismissive of other people wanting laws changed towards something that won't reflect their Mormon values. The dismissive attitude is one of the reasons, at least in my opinion, that 'Utah Mormons' are so different than non-Utah Mormons. The Mormons here are in the majority and I think their general attitudes regarding non-Mormon people/issues reflect their majority status.
This is the most clear-eyed, candid illumination of the alcohol stuff that I've seen here. And it's consistent with all the wierdness - Zion Curtain, beer composition, drink sizes etc etc. Thank you!
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