Home Prices in Salt Lake City/Utah: Just how much do the appreciate? (Sandy: condos, townhomes)

[Curious Jay]

Well, I have a more atypical situation - I'm in a position where I'll start a family within the next couple of year, AND take in my aging parents. So an in-law suite is pretty much a "must" on my list, and that does complicate my home search somewhat... no trendy downtown lofts for me.

[MovingtoUtah99]

The funniest thing I ever saw while househunting last week in the area was that some houses would actually have the "tag" "mother in law" as part of the yard for sale sign...NEVER have I seen those before !

I had to ask my realtor - "what about the poor father in law?" !

[kavm]

It might refer to the so-called 'mother-in-law apartment' that is part of the property. It seems to be an accepted term around here (everywhere?). I must say that I and my wife found it offensive...

[Chango]

Originally Posted by CCSLC

Suburban real estate appreciation will slow, if not stall and decline, in coming years (particularly in Daybreak, where environmental concerns exist and the build quality is suspect---which will only be more obvious as the homes age).

Unlike their parents, young adults nationwide already prefer city living to the suburbs for a variety of reasons. SLC is definitely not there yet, however. Like with most things, we're about 10 years behind the rest of the nation (and our predilection for family sizes that are more comfortable in the suburbs may extend that even further), but it will still happen.

Cities---including SLC---are making a comeback, partially because this generation recognizes that a shortened or nonexistent commute financially negates the benefit of being in a suburb, especially as fuel prices continue to rise. Plus, it's good karma to not pollute our air with your commute and you get the extra time in your day of not commuting... which is invaluable! They also recognize that life is just plain more pleasant when you can walk to Mazza and a Jazz game rather than driving to an Olive Garden and Chuck E. Cheese in a stucco strip mall.

I wouldn't be so sure. Money isn't the only factor... the bigger reason for suburban decline is children, or more accurately the lack of children. Utah is obviously on another planet when it comes to all things kid.
That's probably why trains are becoming so popular along the Wasatch front as they let suburbanites have their cake and eat it too when it comes to living in the 'burbs.

[Curious Jay]

Originally Posted by Chango

I wouldn't be so sure. Money isn't the only factor... the bigger reason for suburban decline is children, or more accurately the lack of children. Utah is obviously on another planet when it comes to all things kid.
That's probably why trains are becoming so popular along the Wasatch front as they let suburbanites have their cake and eat it too when it comes to living in the 'burbs.

I must say, I do love how clean, efficient, and fast the SLC train system is! It's a breath of fresh air for me. But take that for what it's worth since this comes from an L.A. guy, where public transportation is a) a disaster and b) a joke.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by Chango

I wouldn't be so sure. Money isn't the only factor... the bigger reason for suburban decline is children, or more accurately the lack of children. Utah is obviously on another planet when it comes to all things kid.
That's probably why trains are becoming so popular along the Wasatch front as they let suburbanites have their cake and eat it too when it comes to living in the 'burbs.

I agree somewhat, but the share of children in urban areas---including in SLC---is also on the rise. Having kids no longer means moving to the suburbs for a yard; plenty of us are choosing to raise kids downtown where there's more diversity, culture, and educational amenities. Who needs a huge backyard when you're across the street from Liberty Park?

[Chango]

Originally Posted by CCSLC

I agree somewhat, but the share of children in urban areas---including in SLC---is also on the rise. Having kids no longer means moving to the suburbs for a yard; plenty of us are choosing to raise kids downtown where there's more diversity, culture, and educational amenities. Who needs a huge backyard when you're across the street from Liberty Park?

But so little of Utah is truly urban... even in SLC it amounts to only a few blocks of real urban landscape while the rest is mostly suburban single family houses sprinkled with condo/apartment buildings. The Liberty Park area is still basically suburban too.

Anyway, I realize I'm not everybody but I work downtown, live clear out in Syracuse, ride frontrunner to/from work and the train is always crowded with folks doing basically the same thing.

We recently moved and did some looking downtown but the price was just too high vs what you can get. We eventually settled on an older 2100 sq ft house with 1/2 acre out in the hinterlands but the train makes it easy, cheap and practical to live there but work downtown...especially since I get a free UTA pass from my work! Talking to people on the train, it seems many other employers do the same and/or offered cheap subsidized UTA passes.

You can do a condo/apartment with kids (we've done it too) but there is no beating a single family home with a huge yard. Currently my kids are learning how to take care of animals (a couple goats) and we plan to do chickens too... not to mention we have more money to travel and go have fun that we wouldn't have if we bought a similar sized place downtown for over twice the price.

Can you tell I'm not sold on the "urban lifestyle"? Anyway, it's just another reason why I think our suburbs are in no danger of declining in the near future.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by Chango

But so little of Utah is truly urban... even in SLC it amounts to only a few blocks of real urban landscape while the rest is mostly suburban single family houses sprinkled with condo/apartment buildings. The Liberty Park area is still basically suburban too.

Hmmm... I don't think "suburban" and "urban" mean what you think they mean. The neighborhoods around Liberty Park are definitely urban. You can have single family homes in an urban environment; the lots are typically smaller, but they're still squarely urban. Queens, NY is basically single family homes sprinkled with apartment buildings, with relatively few tall buildings, and we would certainly never call it "suburban."

While urban vs. suburban is somewhat predicated on population density*, true urban environments consist of mixed-use zoning (which make them more inherently walkable), pedestrian friendly scale and design, accessibility multiple non-SOV (single occupancy vehicle) transit options (bike lanes, bus, trolley, light rail), etc.

Functionally, the fact that from the Liberty Park area I can go to work, go to dinner, go to the park, go to a museum, and shop for groceries all without ever getting into my car means it's very urban. I still have a yard (potentially with chickens soon)!

It's obviously an individual question of lifestyle preference, but I'd rather pay a little more and have 2 hours more with family than spend that time on the train. When I did the math using my hourly wage, it actually turned out that paying more for city living was a better financial deal than living somewhere less expensive and spending 1.5-2 hours (round trip) on transit.

*If we consider population density the driving definition, then Taylorsville City is the most urban in Utah; it, thanks to the expanse of apartment buildings between Redwood Road and I-15 along 3900 and 4500 South, is the most densely population city in Utah.

[Chango]

Urban means high density development, and most homes in the Liberty park area are detached single family homes on their own (albeit smaller than average for UT) lots. That is the very definition of suburban.

Anyway, it's kinda funny but I'm within a mile from a grocery store, restaurants, parks and yes, even a museum here in Syracuse... though I won't vouch for what passes for culture around here!

In the end, it's a matter of personal preference, and urban style living is certainly in vogue around the nation. It doesn't appeal to me, but obviously plenty of folks do like it and several new condo projects go up downtown every year.

Still they pale in comparison to the size and popularity of suburbia in UT, and rather than withering and dying, we're doing almost crazy things to keep it all viable as the world changes.. and it keeps growing.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by Chango

Urban means high density development, and most homes in the Liberty park area are detached single family homes on their own (albeit smaller than average for UT) lots. That is the very definition of suburban.

You cannot be serious! It's a lot more than population density that defines urbanity.

According to your metric, the Avenues and are a suburb of Salt Lake City.
The Avenues average just over 11,000 people/sq. mi. and the majority of the Aves are single family homes. The block immediately northwest of Liberty Park (btw 800 and 900 South and 400 and 500 East) has a population density of 15,000 people/sq. mi. The block immediately northeast of Liberty is 12,000 people/sq. mi. The block immediately north of Liberty (along 600 East) is 11,000 people/sq. mi.

I mean, there are areas of residential downtown Los Angeles (single family homes on smaller lots!) that have population densities in the mid-to-high teens. So that's the suburbs then?

I used to be an urban planner/demographer and I'm going to say it again: I don't think "urban" and "suburban" mean what you think they mean.