What's Salt Lake City like? (Provo, Ogden: for rent, purchase, schools)

[cinnabon]

Originally Posted by catrinac

What a disagreeable, uncompassionate, judgemental thing to say to a total stranger. You will fit in quite well in Salt Lake, cinnabon.

p.s. I just got more rep points from someone who thanked me for once again sharing my insights about Utah.

Wow, I am truly amazed that you feel this way about what I said! No offense was intended. But it seems that you sometimes feel insulted even when no one is insulting you.

However, I was a bit offended by the condescending remark you threw my way about how I have a "need" to love SLC so I am sugar coating the reality of how awful a place it is. You basically accused me of deluding myself, and I was simply correcting that mis statement. You may not intend this, but you have a way of implying that everyone who praises SLC must just be really stupid.

I am truly sorry if I upset you somehow. At first I found your perspective helpful, and there is nothing wrong with telling people that you have had a bad experience and pointing out the negatives about UT. But it's sounding more and more petty and less objective as time goes by (see below).

Originally Posted by catrinac

Salt Lake sucks but hey, good luck!

[dcisive]

Well, isn't that the 50,000 dollar question. I'd put it this way. it would depend largely on which colored glasses you prefer to wear on this subject. First I'll play antagonist.

* Utah (the greater Salt Lake area in particular) has the countries WORST drivers bar none. I know this as I've traveled most of the country extensively as a sales rep on the road. They have a distinct "me first" attitude here, and as a result our auto insurance rates are some of the highest around, as is the serious and non serious accident rate. Personally I just wish they would get a clue what the left lane is about (in other words either hammer it or get OUT of the lane). other States seem to have this pretty well under control.

The Mormons: Ahh well the favorite subject...a love-hate one I suppose. Well let me just say this about that. I lived in SLC back from 1978-1981, and compared to then it is a whole other world here in SLC, as I came back in 1993. Let me paint this picture for you. Basically speaking back then SLC was so clean you could eat off the streets. There was 1 murder the entire 3 years I was here and people were agast over that. The Black community was almost non existant and very isolated in the Rose Park area outside NW of the city. The Hispanic community was VERY isolated and tiny in the "Central City" area just East of Downtown. Back then if you were NOT a Mormon good luck finding anyone to communicate with or commiserate with regarding your viewpoint. I dated 3 girls, all were return missionary's and wanted to convert me. I managed to run into a nice gal living across from me in my apartment and after leaving town ended up bringing her with me and we married. Fast forward 27 years now and still married. The mountains back then were pristine, and if you went up into Millcreek, Big or Little Cottonwood Canyon on a Sunday morning could have the entire environment to yourself. I used to take my guitar up there and play by the stream. I could drive from 7200 S. on the East side at 4:30pm, run downtown on an erand and be back in 45 minutes TOTAL both ways. There were NO gangs, NO graffiti to be seen and NO gang activity whatsoever. It was a nice respit from living in Chicago at the time. Good food as they knew it was limited to Chuckarama, Marie Callenders and a few steak houses downtown. That was about it...but I didn't starve that's for sure.

Fast forward: When we returned in 1993, gang warfare was rampant (and still is a HUGE problem today if you don't stick your head in the sand), housing prices were on the rise to unreal levels (and they are still NO bargain) entire areas of the city have been overrun by citizens that shall we say are not here either legally, or should be deported for their behavior, the Polynesians imported by the "Church" have found their way into organized gangs and are some of the most violent of them all. The LDS, while on the decline in total population still run the State and local governments. You can't find an "Adult" experience no matter where you go as the typical "family" of 6-8 get dragged out to each and every restaurant and the din is enough to make you nuts. Forget about quiet and privacy it ain't gonna happen. The quiet and private canyon experience is a rare one on a rare day if you go far out of your way to seek it. Roads are overrun with drivers that have NO business with a drivers license in the first place (guess Kmart had a special buy diapers get a drivers license free recently). The experience of shopping for food is next to a root canal as the lines at checkout are long enough, but what you endure during the experience is worse. Forget about going out to a movie...yes even an ADULT one as there WILL be some mothers and kids there with all the attendant disruptions. You HAVE to be a child LOVER to truly enjoy living here that's for sure. It's all about someones kids...and THEY always come first...so get used to it. They days of low or non existent crime have gone away. If it's not locked, welded and bolted down don't count on it being there when you come back unless there has been some divine intervention. I just look out on a clear day first thing in the morning, before the din of screaming children, traffic and everything else gets going, and think....ahhh I remember when........then there is the taxes. If you own a home plan on them being raised each year as the kiddie population continues to go through the roof and new schools are continuously needed.....yep....YOU will be paying for those no matter what. Are you SURE you want to live here? So those reading this will say why don't you just leave if you don't like it here. Believe me....given the right offer.....I'd be gone tomorrow.............who knows........it just might happen

[dreameyes]

As the bumper sticker says: UTAH: Love it or leave it!

There are going to be negetive people wherever you go and you are right cinnabon in that they are pros and cons to living anywhere. But like you said the pros outweigh the cons as they do for many people. Utah is a very beautiful, very diverse state, low crime (rampant my butt, ya maybe compared to the 80s for here but geez compare it to anywhere else in the states), great place to raise kids, mucho wonderful outdoor activity, great parks and rec., and good cost of living in my opinion (yes the housing a year ago was kinda outta control for here but again compare it with the rest of the states, many people I've seen on this board are amazed at the low cost of living here) Everyone has differing opinions about things and that is the way it should be, but you really just need to find out what is best for you and go for it!

[cinnabon]

Originally Posted by dreameyes

As the bumper sticker says: UTAH: Love it or leave it!

There are going to be negetive people wherever you go and you are right cinnabon in that they are pros and cons to living anywhere. But like you said the pros outweigh the cons as they do for many people. Utah is a very beautiful, very diverse state, low crime (rampant my butt, ya maybe compared to the 80s for here but geez compare it to anywhere else in the states), great place to raise kids, mucho wonderful outdoor activity, great parks and rec., and good cost of living in my opinion (yes the housing a year ago was kinda outta control for here but again compare it with the rest of the states, many people I've seen on this board are amazed at the low cost of living here) Everyone has differing opinions about things and that is the way it should be, but you really just need to find out what is best for you and go for it!

Well said! I think a lot of it boils down to what you are comparing it to. When comparing it to NJ (the part near NYC) it's a little slice of Heaven, warts & all!

[11thHour]

Worst drivers? I don't know - from my time in Newark and Houston, the drivers in Utah seem tame by comparison. But - it's my opinion drivers everywhere are bad, so I guess it's all relative.

Certainly, no city/state is right for everyone. I was downright miserable in Houston. I mean miserable! Yet everyone around me seemed to be happy. Such is life. Here's the thing: Rather than stay where I was miserable, I got out and moved back to Utah, where I am happy. Life is too short to be miserable.

[Aerorick]

If you move to Utah stay near SLC. It is then only place in the state resembling mainstream "anywhere else". If you venture out to the rural areas, most of the rest of the state, it's another world and is probably the reason for most of the negative posts about Utah. Mine included.

[tmacWVTX]

Originally Posted by 11thHour

Worst drivers? I don't know - from my time in Newark and Houston, the drivers in Utah seem tame by comparison. But - it's my opinion drivers everywhere are bad, so I guess it's all relative.

Certainly, no city/state is right for everyone. I was downright miserable in Houston. I mean miserable! Yet everyone around me seemed to be happy. Such is life. Here's the thing: Rather than stay where I was miserable, I got out and moved back to Utah, where I am happy. Life is too short to be miserable.

I am moving to SLC in two weeks from Houston, and I must agree that I too was and am miserable in Houston. I lived in West Virginia before, so you can only imagine my culture shock. I can really relate to your post and it puts my mind at ease for the move to come. Thanks!!!!

[lemon&lime]

Salt Lake is a very strange town, period. I am continually floored by what passes as normal behavior here, especially from people in customer service. Today I went the Sugarhouse Pei Wei after work. I ordered and apparently the person who took my order misunderstood and placed it to go. I sat at a table for about fifteen minutes till the manager came over. I told her I was waiting for my food and she said it was probably in a to go bag, so I asked her if she could put it on a plate and bring it to me, my intention was to have my meal there. I was starving and exhausted and thought my request would be easy for her to understand. She came over a minute later with the bag and presented it to me. I asked again for her to put it on a plate and she said, "I don't understand why you are upset". I more or less had to demand very loudly that she put my order on plate and bring it to me NOW. This manager was Mexican, though I know that is besides the point. It's the whole town, period. Rudest place I have ever visited or lived.

[11thHour]

Originally Posted by catrinac

Salt Lake is a very strange town, period. I am continually floored by what passes as normal behavior here, especially from people in customer service. Today I went the Sugarhouse Pei Wei after work. I ordered and apparently the person who took my order misunderstood and placed it to go. I sat at a table for about fifteen minutes till the manager came over. I told her I was waiting for my food and she said it was probably in a to go bag, so I asked her if she could put it on a plate and bring it to me, my intention was to have my meal there. I was starving and exhausted and thought my request would be easy for her to understand. She came over a minute later with the bag and presented it to me. I asked again for her to put it on a plate and she said, "I don't understand why you are upset". I more or less had to demand very loudly that she put my order on plate and bring it to me NOW. This manager was Mexican, though I know that is besides the point. It's the whole town, period. Rudest place I have ever visited or lived.

This sounds more like a customer service/courtesy issue than a locality issue. I could go on and on about how horrid the 'customer service' was in Houston - at times I was outright ignored. But unfortunately customer service and manners seem to be declining rapidly all over this country - trust me I know as I literally travel all over for work. It's not just a SLC thing.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Well, I think customer service here is very good. I've only been here 7 yrs, but it sure beats NYC or other northern places. I also think the drivers aren't bad, at least half will let you merge into their lane unlike New Orleans where they speed up to cut you off. SLC is behind the times in many respects, maybe stuck in the 70s or 80s compared to the rest of the country, but that's not all a bad thing. I am too liberal for most of the politics here, but I can stand it.