non mormons moving to slc public or private schools (renting, crime rate)

[stycotl]

case in point.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by jakcor86

We lived in Clearfield, south of Ogden, from 2001 - 2003. Anyone who says the Mormons don't discriminate against non-Mormons is either Mormon or was born there and knows no better. These people keep maps posted in their homes, with Smiley faces on "members" homes, question marks on unknown homes, and Frowney faces on homes of those who refuse to convert. There is minimal separation of Church and State. A classic example is the State liquor commission - 4 out of 5 members are Mormon, whose religion forbids drinking alcohol. If you have school age children, plan on sending them to a private school and having no friends in the neighborhood.

The concept of "frowny faces" and "smiley faces" seems absurd to me. And I'm in my LDS ward leadership. I would like to (in a nice way) challenge you to explain when and where you saw these alleged maps.

[jakcor86]

My next door neighbor had a map posted by their front door. It was hand drawn and had every house on our street, by number. The smiley/frowney faces were on every address. Can I prove it? No. Did it exist? Yes. I realize your church teaches non-discrimination against other religions, but you are in denial if you sincerely believe it doesn't happen often.

[chazcrew]

Originally Posted by Abstrakt

The Utah education system is built around producing idiots...I do feel the church may have something to do with this though it is just speculation. It has been proven religion is more easily and widely accepted by the ignorant. If Utahns become well educated than the LDS church.........

ROFL! Check the stats. Members of the LDS church are, by and large, intelligent and well-educated people. Most of the church leadership have advanced degrees. Utah has its educational challenges, but I don't think deliberately keeping the kids dumb in order to more easily brainwash them is one of them.

P.S. Religion is more easily accepted by the humble and open-minded, who aren't completely enamored of their own intellect.

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by jakcor86

My next door neighbor had a map posted by their front door. It was hand drawn and had every house on our street, by number. The smiley/frowney faces were on every address. Can I prove it? No. Did it exist? Yes. I realize your church teaches non-discrimination against other religions, but you are in denial if you sincerely believe it doesn't happen often.

Based on what you said, I can surmise a couple of things.

1) Your neighbor took it upon herself to create such a hand-drawn map.
2) There may be a correlation between the “smiley face” houses and the LDS ward.
3) We don’t know why she took the personal initiative to create such a map.
4) Your neighbor may indeed be a nutcase. But the map was not sanctioned by the local LDS Ward

In any case, I think your conclusion is wrong. Currently your reasoning is that “because I saw a bizarre handwritten map at my Mormon neighbor’s house, Mormons in Utah generally have maps to identify the non-members.”

I believe it should be “My neighbor, who happens to be a Mormon, has a bizarre handwritten map in her house. It is possible that many Mormons have affinities for hand-drawn smiley face maps. But based on one experience I can’t generalize that to the population as a whole.”

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by coolcats

Based on what you said, I can surmise a couple of things.

1) Your neighbor took it upon herself to create such a hand-drawn map.
2) There may be a correlation between the “smiley face” houses and the LDS ward.
3) We don’t know why she took the personal initiative to create such a map.
4) Your neighbor may indeed be a nutcase. But the map was not sanctioned by the local LDS Ward

In any case, I think your conclusion is wrong. Currently your reasoning is that “because I saw a bizarre handwritten map at my Mormon neighbor’s house, Mormons in Utah generally have maps to identify the non-members.”

I believe it should be “My neighbor, who happens to be a Mormon, has a bizarre handwritten map in her house. It is possible that many Mormons have affinities for hand-drawn smiley face maps. But based on one experience I can’t generalize that to the population as a whole.”

who says he can't generalize? i say he should be able to generalize as much as he wants. everyone is 100% entitled to their own misguided, unresearched, unsupported, unintelligently composed, completely biased opinions. our great country was founded upon such principles of hypocritical-hypothetical-heteroclite-hysteria ( i just made that up).

i say, the more logical fallacies we use to create our opinions of people/government/religion/history/school systems/etc, the better.

but don't take my word for it. what do i know? i am, after all, one of those 'idiots' produced by the utah public school system who doesn't know his hand from his rear end (which am i supposed to wipe, and which is supposed to do the wiping? i forget...), and couldn't tell the difference between santa clause, howard stern, and the apostle peter.

aaron out.

[jakcor86]

I'm not completely "trashing" Utah. I loved the smoke-free restaurants, the family oriented atmosphere, and the fact that there were many non-LDS churches present. The skiing is fabulous. Of course there are some genuinely friendly, helpful people.

But I maintain my position. There is without a doubt an anti-LDS bias in the state. If your son wants to be a Cub scout, the only dens around are through the local Ward. If a non-LDS child gets in trouble in high school, the options may be suspension or counseling through the local ward. If your child does become friends with a member, the friend and/or her parents won't hesitate to try to convert her against your wishes. You may get dirty looks when you order a beer with your dinner.

I would expect you to defend your state. But your opinions don't invalidate the experiences I personally have had.

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by Abstrakt

I would be more concerned with the level of education rather than bias. The Utah education system is built around producing idiots. I went to school here in Salt Lake most my life and never felt unfairly shunned. I did feel however that the curriculum didn't change or progress from about 4th grade on. Every teacher I had in High school taught for less than ten minutes per class then handed out ridiculously easy work sheets for us to do the rest of the time.

That's Granite Elementary-Albion Middle School-Brighton High School.

I do feel the church may have something to do with this though it is just speculation. It has been proven religion is more easily and widely accepted by the ignorant. If Utahns become well educated than the LDS church.........

Curiouser and curiouser

[Taboo2]

Originally Posted by askslc

That's not to say that he won't be shunned by a few folks in public schools (more likely kids than teachers). I think many of us non-LDS feel like we are outsiders sometimes, but it's not a huge deal. -

But why do they shun? Is that what their religion teaches them? That they are better than others? Where is the tolerance and love that GOD teaches in the bible? Or did Joseph Smith and BY nix that in their versions? Schools are meant for learning FACTS not FICTION or RELIGION. Kids are nasty anywhere you go and this is truth. Why would Utah be any different?

[wester]

Hi---we lived in Salt Lake City for almost five years and non-Mormons are cheerful, accepted beings, Mormons are cheerful, accepted beings, our high school son and our grade school son were unaware of others' religions and we assumed most were non-Mormons as we rarely heard mention of religion in their public schools. Perhaps in Provo or other smaller more intensely Mormon communities one would be aware of a religious divide....Mormons, we understood, did their bonding in their homes and in their churches....and you could see the great sea of them heading to the Temple on the days of conferences, weddings, etc.....but as a group, we found them unthreatening and very quaint....