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Old 10-23-2017, 11:39 AM
 
2,052 posts, read 1,200,707 times
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I really don't think we want an Amazon HQ here TBH. We do not have a lack of jobs or population growth. Wherever Amazon goes the State and local municipalities will get bent over a barrel on tax incentives that they will have to provide. The fair share of costs and impact fees will not be paid by Amazon but will be shouldered by tax payers. 50k of workers headed to one location everyday will stress even the best of highway infrastructure that we do have. On top of that we have a housing problem or lack there of. This would exacerbate the problem and force prices much much higher and force people to look even further away.

IMO this is a hard pass for us we don't need it!
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:00 PM
 
Location: East Millcreek
2,222 posts, read 4,443,723 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
I really don't think we want an Amazon HQ here TBH. We do not have a lack of jobs or population growth. Wherever Amazon goes the State and local municipalities will get bent over a barrel on tax incentives that they will have to provide. The fair share of costs and impact fees will not be paid by Amazon but will be shouldered by tax payers. 50k of workers headed to one location everyday will stress even the best of highway infrastructure that we do have. On top of that we have a housing problem or lack there of. This would exacerbate the problem and force prices much much higher and force people to look even further away.

IMO this is a hard pass for us we don't need it!
Speaking for myself,I didn't come here to experience all the chaos and side effects that Amazon would unleash on UT. To the contrary.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
9,571 posts, read 7,332,396 times
Reputation: 10255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions (especially the second one) from this post.
My personal view is the more non-Utahns interact with Utahns, the negative prejudice goes away. Hollywood could play a role - it has done much over the past 50 years to "normalize" the majority perception of specific historically persecuted racial minorities (including African Americans, Hispanic Americans -- all the way down to the Hmong) and to a lesser extent historically persecuted religious minorities (Muslims). In that vein, perhaps some TV programming portraying Utahn and Mormons as, well, normal people without horns could go a long way.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
9,571 posts, read 7,332,396 times
Reputation: 10255
Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
Historically (10, 20, 50 years ago?), from an outsider's perspective, quite deserved. Every visitor/tourist has always known that there's a Mormon majority and Mormons shun alcohol. Since most aren't teetotalers, people take home the stories about the stupid liquor laws and this is embedded in Utah's national reputation. At this point is IS somewhat exaggerated (but only somewhat). The reputation persists, there's no getting around it.
From Utah's Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control https://abc.utah.gov/about/index.html:

Quote:
Utah's system of controlling the sale of alcoholic beverages is not as unique as most people believe. There are eighteen states and one county in Maryland which control the sale of alcoholic beverages at either the wholesale or retail level. These jurisdictions account for nearly 1/3 of the nation's population. These states share a common purpose - to promote moderation in the consumption of alcoholic beverages and to discourage excess and abuse.
About a year ago I met the then-Chairman of Utah's DABC. He was quite proud that he had never had an alcoholic beverage in his life, and asserted he never would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
More recently the entire nation has been repeatedly exposed to Utah's position on federal lands (paying lip service to conservation/recreation but with the larger aim of expanding extractive industries while shutting the Indians out of the process entirely). Every single person, nationwide, in the outdoor recreation industry, the hiking clubs, the conservation groups, etc etc has heard about the OR show debacle. This doesn't play well except with the other hard-right, open space western states, and even that's a stretch. There are lots of skiers that won't be coming to UT as a direct result.
Everyone agrees the Federal Government has far too much control of land in the West. The federal government owns 28 percent of all land in the United States. Today, the feds control approximately 640 million acres of land, and after decades of very poor management, many are calling on the states to take a larger role. This is particularly true in the 11 western states where the federal government collectively owns 47 percent of all land. East of the Mississippi River, the feds only own 4 percent of all land, and there is no reason for such a disparity to exist. In Connecticut and Iowa, the federal government only owns 0.3 percent of all land. Such an arrangement seems to work very well for those states, and so why can’t we dramatically reduce federal land ownership in the western states as well?

Of course the federal government will always need a very small amount of land for certain national purposes, and nobody is disputing that.

But does the Bureau Of Land Management really need more than 247 million acres?

Does the Forest Service really need more than 192 million acres?

Does the Fish and Wildlife Service really need more than 89 million acres?

If the feds were doing a good job, that would be one thing, but in so many instances federal land managers have gotten an extremely bad reputation. For example, federal land is exempt from state noxious weed control laws, and lack of weed control has earned federal land a reputation as a bad neighbor. Frustrated local federal land managers are hindered by layers of internal regulations and restricted funding that make timely response to weed outbreaks difficult. And thanks to mismanagement by the feds, wildfires tend to spread very rapidly in many areas owned and controlled by the federal government.

If you have never lived in a western state, it may be difficult for you to imagine just how frustrating it is to have the federal government in control of vast stretches of your state. In so many cases the feds simply do not care about local issues or concerns, and when they drop the ball there is often very little that can be done about it.

According to Ballotpedia, the federal government owns more than 28 percent of the land in 12 different western states…

Washington: 28.5 percent

Montana: 29.0 percent

New Mexico: 34.7 percent

Colorado: 35.9 percent

Arizona: 38.6 percent

California: 45.8 percent

Wyoming: 48.1 percent

Oregon: 52.9 percent

Alaska: 61.2 percent

Idaho: 61.6 percent

Utah: 64.9 percent

Nevada: 84.9 percent

Eastern elites who write for the New York Times (the nation's fishwrap of record) still get most of their information about everything west of the Hudson from late-night reruns of John Wayne westerns from the 1950s.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kletter1mann View Post
Finally, consider Utah's very visible representatives in Washington, Mr. Lee and Mr. Hatch. By coastal standards (or anywhere left of the hard right for that matter) these guys are viewed as regressive troglodytes.
The coastal standards are not the norm for the country. At any rate, thinking the coastal states are the norm shows the deficiencies in the educational systems of those coastal states.
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Old 10-25-2017, 12:59 PM
 
661 posts, read 358,768 times
Reputation: 1610
"Everyone agrees the Federal Government has far too much control of land in the West"

they do?? also, your argument regarding federal land ownership in different parts of the country and how that came to be, east vs west, indicates that you need to brush up on your history.

and besides the fact that other states also control the sales of alcohol in a similar manner other laws still lend themselves to mockery.

zion curtain and now zion moat? must have food at a "restaurant" to have liquor? this a bar/restaurant signs at the door?? can't drop a second drink on the table until your first is gone? no doubles, no happy hour, no long island iced teas, etc. due to liquor/drink limitations.

Last edited by old fed; 10-25-2017 at 01:27 PM..
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