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Does industry at least shut down here during red air days? It seems like there's a lot of education on drivers to carpool, take public transportation, not idle, etc... Which is great. I'm just curious what the other commercial side of the equation looks like.
Starting up and shutting down are by far most unstable and at risk times for big industrial facilities. It can take several days and likely create more emissions than just operating normally.
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Originally Posted by rh310
I live high on the east bench and can see the smokestacks constantly on up until the moment they get obscured by smog, so it always comes to mind.
I don't know exactly what stacks you are looking at, but what can be seen coming out of most of those stacks is almost entirely water vapor not smoke.
Starting up and shutting down are by far most unstable and at risk times for big industrial facilities. It can take several days and likely create more emissions than just operating normally.
I don't know exactly what stacks you are looking at, but what can be seen coming out of most of those stacks is almost entirely water vapor not smoke.
I worked in and around chemical plants most of my professional life and this is absolutely true. The general public seems to think that you start/stop such facilities by flipping a switch like your car or oven. It just ain't so.
Location: God's Gift to Mankind for flying anything
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Start stop ...
How about NOT thinking of Industries starting and stopping, which by the way has been explained, as not efficient and really cumbersome.
How about thinking of "YOU*, while you drive and stop/start at each red light ?
How many would do that, since that (I think) has been proven as entirely possible without adverse results ?
Me ? I do not drive as much as I used since my retirement and physical handicap.
Maybe two trips a week ?
The problem there, is the time you would be sitting at a stop light.
So we need some kind of indicator, how much longer, after we stop and cut the engine, until the light turns green. That takes action from the government requiring visible timers, so you "know" how much longer you would be sitting there.
From personal use it take a lot of discipline to get this going, which sadly is not available in the American way of driver thinking.
Where I grew up (Europe), we did have a few of those timers and we could see how much time was left before the amber light would turn on which gave you thus some kind of warning when yo could start your engine again.
Testing and standards
Testing is done by Frequency, meaning "How Often is the test done"
Next is "To what Standard(s) is the test done".
You can test every other day, but if your test standard is a lousy one, then nothing is gained by doing it every other day.
You are aware, that the testing, today, is done by a simple read-out on a computer and not any more with real sample testing of the exhaust smoke ?
Might as well do nothing ...
Makes total sense. If the standards are lower we'll ultimately end up with higher emission cars so it really doesn't matter how often people have to smog their cars, they'll probably pass anyways.
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Originally Posted by dcisive
Oh well. I'll leave you folks to argue if Utah has the worst drivers (near it for sure) and some of the country's worst air (at the top of the list). I'm outta here by the summer to drink spring water and have clean air and no traffic issues. I wish you all the best. 23 years of this place has finally become more than enough. With the growth that is coming it will without question multiply (not unlike the little ones around here). Enjoy the new taxes on the way along with genuine gridlock more often. So suck it up and enjoy.....there's more on the way..
If you need/want to live in a major city then i'm not sure you'll find anywhere with much less traffic than here. The drivers do suck but that's easily tolerable for me and my routine. The air quality is the most concerning but on a year round basis it isn't horrible and far better than other places i've lived where no one even talks about it. It really is just these inversion conditions that really throw in a wrench in things and are hard to swallow (literally!).
As far as I know, there are no other cities in US with the same pros I was looking for. There are no other places that are essentially a ski town for mere mortals that might need a desk job and cant spend 7 figures on a house. So you just gotta deal with the crummy air in the winter or trade it for things that smaller mountain towns might lack (jobs, affordable housing, airport access, etc...) or move somewhere like Boise or Denver and become a weekend warrior with the rest of the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksman
I don't know exactly what stacks you are looking at, but what can be seen coming out of most of those stacks is almost entirely water vapor not smoke.
The main emissions I see from sunrise to sunset from the east bench are the giant Kennecott smelter stack (thats water vapor?) and the refineries. I'm not a scientist in this field but what's coming out of those seems like a whole lot of cars worth. Whatever it may be, for a town with such serious air quality issues in the winter, anything spewing into the air that time of year does look suspect.
Oh well. I'll leave you folks to argue if Utah has the worst drivers (near it for sure) and some of the country's worst air (at the top of the list). I'm outta here by the summer to drink spring water and have clean air and no traffic issues. I wish you all the best. 23 years of this place has finally become more than enough. With the growth that is coming it will without question multiply (not unlike the little ones around here). Enjoy the new taxes on the way along with genuine gridlock more often. So suck it up and enjoy.....there's more on the way..
A rural area west of Twin Falls Idaho. A 30 minute drive will provide me with top health care, Costco, Winco, BestBuy, Macy's and more along with tons of fast food, nice higher end restaurants (one we had dinner at a few weeks ago when doing our sit down with the builder and it was gloriously devoid of children, destined to be a favorite). Even Jack In The Box (I missed their Taco's lol). Near the Snake river and falls supposed to be higher then Niagara. An hour to Ketchum and Boise and so much more. Clean air year around and some of the finest spring fed water there is. It's also a 55+ street developed by the builder with CCR's to assist in the peace and quiet (won't that be a treat compared to Herriman). I'm counting the days. Our agent does his sit down day after new years day to set us up on the MLS. If we get the fast bite most others in our area are getting we hope to be in before Memorial Day. We're already packing to some degree so getting a jump on it.
A rural area west of Twin Falls Idaho. A 30 minute drive will provide me with top health care, Costco, Winco, BestBuy, Macy's and more along with tons of fast food, nice higher end restaurants (one we had dinner at a few weeks ago when doing our sit down with the builder and it was gloriously devoid of children, destined to be a favorite). Even Jack In The Box (I missed their Taco's lol). Near the Snake river and falls supposed to be higher then Niagara. An hour to Ketchum and Boise and so much more. Clean air year around and some of the finest spring fed water there is. It's also a 55+ street developed by the builder with CCR's to assist in the peace and quiet (won't that be a treat compared to Herriman). I'm counting the days. Our agent does his sit down day after new years day to set us up on the MLS. If we get the fast bite most others in our area are getting we hope to be in before Memorial Day. We're already packing to some degree so getting a jump on it.
Idaho and no kids , doesn't seem to ring true. So its a retirement village in rural idaho ? Best of luck with the move
Idaho and no kids , doesn't seem to ring true. So its a retirement village in rural idaho ? Best of luck with the move
Other things don't make sense to me. He says he has access to "top health care" with only a thirty minute drive. I knew Twin Falls was not a major city, so I looked up the population. Its 48,000 during the last census. Twin Falls is almost two hours from Boise which is the only major city in the area. I question how good the quality of health care can be in a place the size of Twin Falls.
In any event, I wish dcisive good luck. He obviously has been unhappy in Utah for a long time. Hopefully, this move will be good for him and his spouse. Life is too short to suffer in a place that you don't like and I totally agree that Utah is not for everyone.
I guess due in part to former spats on this site some of you seem under the impression I don't do homework. First I'm not moving to Twin Falls, it's 30 minutes West of their. 2nd as far as hospitals go the major hospital in Twin Falls is St. Lukes Magic Valley Medical Center. They happen to be very highly rated in the top 15 nationally for Cardiovascular, Cancer and Orthopedic technology and care. Works for me.
As for the kid thing, lets just say the town I'll be in does have a middle school, that's about it. They apparently do not have the child population (based on the median age of adults in the immediate area) hence my taxes aren't going to get yanked up yearly for schools (yay finally!). I already checked on my property taxes and they will be about 40% of what I'm paying here yippie. Car Taxes? They ain't got any. It's a $69 registration fee PERIOD. None of that egregious car tax like the $300 I'd be paying with my newer leased vehicle. There is a significant influx of retirees so I'm sure fine with that. The area in general doesn't revolve around children to the level Utah does which sure will be refreshing. As I may have mentioned I went to a higher end restaurant at close to 5pm on a Saturday no less. If I did that here in Utah it would be loaded with screaming kids from babies to teens. The entire 2 hours I was there I didn't see one person I'd say was under their mid 20's at least. When my wife ordered her wine during dinner, it was at least 3 times the amount they'll pour here in Utah. The price being the same. How amazing........
Traffic up there as expected was a walk in the park, regardless of the hours I was in it which included lunch and dinner and after hours. No such thing as "rush hour" which will also be a real treat. Air quality? top notch. Water? spring fed not contaminated by the likes of a Kennicott or worse. So you folks can go right ahead and kick me to the curb here I'm used to that. To each their own indeed.
I also commute to Park City every day and, even in the middle or slow lane driving at the speed limit, drivers almost plough me over. I'm very curious why this is such an epidemic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rh310
I think someone earlier summed it up well. People drive as if they're the only person on the road.
Personally, I attribute rampant tailgating to lack of understanding of college-level physics (with calculus), a poor understanding of friction, and never having studied an automotive braking system or changed out brake pads.
But it might just as well be about the marginal value of time -- people desperate to get to whatever thing they are going to from whatever thing they are going to.
Or it might be about conditional probabilities: the probability of a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) being near you when you tailgate, the probability of the LEO noticing you are tailgating given than the LEO is near you when you tailgate, the probability of the LEO choosing to cite you given she notices you, the probability of the LEO not seeing a worse traffic law offender given she has already decided to cite you, the probability she indeed pulls you over given she's decided to cite you, the probability she gives you a ticket (instead of a warning) given she's pulled you over, the probability of having an infraction dismissed given you received a ticket, and the probability of receiving a fine given you did not have the ticket dismissed ------ all multiplied by the $$$$ of the ticket and possible insurance premium increase.
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