Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Let's see. Not hiring a woman, African American, non-LDS, whatever because 'they won't fit in culturally', is against the law. But you want a job, not a lawsuit.
When my grandmother had to go to work during the depression, she lied about her religion to get the job. She needed to feed her children. When I was asked whether I was looking for a "Temple-worthy" gown when I was shopping for my wedding gown in LDS land, I just smiled and said, "Yes". I didn't tell them that it was a synagogue 'temple'.
You ran into prejudice in both applications - at one against about 20% of the population of the US (and the most educated part of the country), the other against anyone who isn't LDS. So if you want to live there and get a job, just play along. "Oh, I just love how pleasant and kind people are out here! I think the world is so much better when we help each other." And, "Oh, I was planning on going to the LDS job fair - it was on my calendar, but I had to miss it for my nephew's baptism."
In my professional life there, EVERYONE just assumed I was Mormon! And I am the absolute poster child for a NYC Jew in my physical appearance, and demeanor! I was advised to just not reveal to anyone that I wasn't Mormon, just play along, and the clients would just assume I was Mormon. And everything was fine. Nobody asked. Of course, if it had been in a small town, it would have been different, but no place in the Wasatch front is small anymore, it's getting so built up.
I'm from SWFL and have lived in upstate NY (Saratoga Springs) and the stereotype is indeed real/factual backed up by millions of people from that area. It's not just a TV thing it's a real life cultural norm represented by people from and living in that area. I would not say it's a "negative" stereotype but it just is abrasive to the Utah cultural norms especially a Utah County based company.
My point was to highlight that likely if it's a utah county based company (HQ's /founded here) than the likelihood of the answer to your question being "yes" is incrementally higher than the companies I mentioned. Would I use the term "discrimination" no I wouldn't. But cultural fit to a team/organization is indeed a critical part of the hiring process and they likely will be mining such information. In the example you gave is the person in recruiting explicitly trying to ask if you're LDS (Likely not) but there will be other inadvertent ways to ascertain your character through the rounds.
What they will not do is discriminate based upon your ethnicity, gender, age, race, religion but try to determine your interpersonal style and how you will interact with their organization.
I hope this is helpful!
How is it not discrimination if an employer will not hire me because I don't belong to a particular religion? That's the very definition of discrimination. The only thing a potential employer should be concerned about is whether I have the skills and ability to do the job that I am interviewing for. I can understand if an employer would want to know if I have some sort of problem, such as a drug addiction, that would interfere with my ability to perform my duties, or perhaps if as was mentioned in another thread on CD I had a conviction for a crime such as stalking or sexual harassment that also might affect the way I interact with other employees. But how does what religion I choose to practice (or not practice) have any effect at all on how I do my job or how I relate to the other people I work with? It shouldn't, because religion is something that shouldn't be discussed at work. I learned from experience many years ago that it's best to maintain a separation between one's work life and one's personal life, and not to bring personal issues into the workplace. If someone asks me on a Monday morning how my weekend was, I can reply "it was great... very relaxing" or something like that, without going into all the details of what I did and who I did it with. It's really nobody's business what I do in my personal time, as long as it doesn't negatively impact my employer.
I told the employer in Utah county that I'm low key and non-confrontational (on the other hand, I am not a "doormat" and will stand up for myself when necessary). I have no criminal record of any kind and have never used drugs. I do usually like to drink a cup of coffee each day, but I don't need to do that at work if it's going to offend the LDS workers there. I've already said that I don't have the stereotypical New York accent. There are plenty of people who were born and raised in New York like myself that don't talk like Ray Romano or Fran Drescher. I've been to many places in upstate New York too (Saratoga Springs included), and while there is some difference in the way natives of upstate speak compared to the way those from downstate speak, again, not everyone from downstate speaks like a gangster or with a heavy ethnic accent. I do not see how I would be "abrasive" at all anywhere in Utah, except for the fact that I'm not Mormon and those who are seem to have a problem with those who aren't.
I've had to deal with the negative stereotypes of people from New York in other places I've lived. It's also getting more difficult to try to get a job as many of those in hiring positions are much younger than I am, and probably question how I'd "fit in" working around those of a younger age. Now to compound things, I have to worry about not being chosen for a job because I won't fit in with the "culture" at a particular employer because I don't practice the same religion as most of the workers there? I'm starting to think that moving to Utah was not such a good idea.
The presence of three Starbucks in a suburb in Utah County should be indicative of the fact that there are tens of thousands of coffee drinkers in the immediate area or commuting to the area. It's anecdotal evidence of a significant amount of non-LDS people at least working in the area. I am just trying to convey to the OP that there are many people working in the area that have no relationship with the Church. It's not that complicated.
OK, I see your point now. When I was at the job that I had when I first arrived in Utah, a co-worker who was LDS did explain to me about how generally those in that religion do not drink coffee (which I was not previously aware of) and I guess I had forgotten that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist
Let's see. Not hiring a woman, African American, non-LDS, whatever because 'they won't fit in culturally', is against the law. But you want a job, not a lawsuit.
When my grandmother had to go to work during the depression, she lied about her religion to get the job. She needed to feed her children. When I was asked whether I was looking for a "Temple-worthy" gown when I was shopping for my wedding gown in LDS land, I just smiled and said, "Yes". I didn't tell them that it was a synagogue 'temple'.
You ran into prejudice in both applications - at one against about 20% of the population of the US (and the most educated part of the country), the other against anyone who isn't LDS. So if you want to live there and get a job, just play along. "Oh, I just love how pleasant and kind people are out here! I think the world is so much better when we help each other." And, "Oh, I was planning on going to the LDS job fair - it was on my calendar, but I had to miss it for my nephew's baptism."
In my professional life there, EVERYONE just assumed I was Mormon! And I am the absolute poster child for a NYC Jew in my physical appearance, and demeanor! I was advised to just not reveal to anyone that I wasn't Mormon, just play along, and the clients would just assume I was Mormon. And everything was fine. Nobody asked. Of course, if it had been in a small town, it would have been different, but no place in the Wasatch front is small anymore, it's getting so built up.
What I should have said when the woman asked me if I had been to the LDS job fair was that I was unable to attend because I had an interview for another job on that day, which was in fact the truth.
I understand what you're trying to say above, but I'd rather not have to misrepresent myself just to be accepted by others. While in your case letting others assume that you were a Mormon seemed somehow to work for you, I'd be worried about additional questions related to that, such as what temple I attend, or what LDS events I go to. Plus, how would I explain that I'm not married and have no children? Isn't it kind of expected for Mormons to have large families? I'd just rather not go down that road.
I think that it's really unfortunate that the LDS church seems to teach its members to exclude those who aren't also members of the Church. I know that the LDS church isn't alone in this type of thinking, though, as this is also a belief of those who are Jehovah's Witnesses. It does strike me as odd, however, that the LDS church can be accepting of those in the LGBTQ community while simultaneously isolating those who belong to other religions. There's already too much divisiveness in this country already; what we should be striving for is a country where people aren't judged by what race, ethnicity or religion they are but rather who they are as individuals.
I think that it's really unfortunate that the LDS church seems to teach its members to exclude those who aren't also members of the Church.
The truth of the matter is that the LDS Church teaches precisely the opposite. It's unfortunate that many members of the Church don't follow the advise given them by their leadership. Once again, you will not encounter that kind of discrimination in the medium and large companies in Salt Lake County. I was in the work force for forty-five years in Salt Lake City and had hundreds of non-LDS co-workers (and bosses) over my career. Only once did anyone who was interviewing me ask me a not-so-subtle question to determine whether I was LDS or not. I am, and answered the question "correctly." I did not get the job. At my last place of employment, where I worked for 14 years, two of the three people over me were not LDS.
The accent(s) associated with that stereotype would be a dead giveaway. It tends not to fit in much of anywhere outside the NY/NJ region and maybe LA.
Prejudice and discrimination does suck. I am from the NYC metro area - born in NYC. I have no accent. None.
Sometimes when we are asked where we are originally from, people are surprised that we are not snobbish, or course.
Donald Trump is not the best ambassador from my home city or state. Most NYers loath him, and have for years.
The accent that he speaks with is dying. You can find remnants of it on Staten Island, and in very small parts of Brooklyn and Queens. It is almost non-existent in Manhattan.
Being LDS in Utah (and other parts of the old Great State of Deseret) is very different from being LDS in the rest of the world. The Church teaches people from early childhood to be outgoing and friendly and sociable, and to use that sociability to proselytize.
But in Utah, the Church is so dominant, and such a huge part of people's lives, that it can become all-encompassing. And it's just natural for people to be insular, and favor members of their own group.
This is why I say, if you want to live there and get a job there, just play along. You don't have to specifically lie, just be vague and let people assume. If you don't want to deal with it, move to SLC, which is now only 50% LDS, or move out of Utah.
If a prospective employer automatically assumes I'm "sleazy" because of where I'm from, that's another problem right there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyroads
Please clarify why you mentioned Starbucks in your previous post since I obviously missed the point.
The point was that if Starbucks exists, it must have a market. If it has a market, either Mormons are drinking coffee (which to my understanding, is not allowed, so, probably not THAT many), or there are enough non-Mormons in the area to support Starbucks. If there are, they are probably working somewhere. If they are working somewhere, there must be places that hire non-Mormons. If there are places that hire non-Mormons, you might have a chance.
Being LDS in Utah (and other parts of the old Great State of Deseret) is very different from being LDS in the rest of the world. The Church teaches people from early childhood to be outgoing and friendly and sociable, and to use that sociability to proselytize.
But in Utah, the Church is so dominant, and such a huge part of people's lives, that it can become all-encompassing. And it's just natural for people to be insular, and favor members of their own group.
This is why I say, if you want to live there and get a job there, just play along. You don't have to specifically lie, just be vague and let people assume. If you don't want to deal with it, move to SLC, which is now only 50% LDS, or move out of Utah.
Being LDS in Utah (and other parts of the old Great State of Deseret) is very different from being LDS in the rest of the world. The Church teaches people from early childhood to be outgoing and friendly and sociable, and to use that sociability to proselytize.
But in Utah, the Church is so dominant, and such a huge part of people's lives, that it can become all-encompassing. And it's just natural for people to be insular, and favor members of their own group.
This is why I say, if you want to live there and get a job there, just play along. You don't have to specifically lie, just be vague and let people assume. If you don't want to deal with it, move to SLC, which is now only 50% LDS, or move out of Utah.
When I lived in Utah I owned this. I look, act, and for the most part am (culturally) Mormon. When interacting with other Mormons it was always best to preserve that image so that they maintain a positive perception of you. If you lose that perception you fall out of the inner-circle. That being said, the converse is true as well. In non-Mormon circles (which do exist in some work places - even in the suburbs) it's advantageous to be clear that you are not Mormon or if you are, that you're "cool".
Overall 2/10 for the social scene; do not miss. Some people don't mind it, but to me I disliked that so much of every social situation was defined by or somehow involved a relationship with the church.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
