Something that Disturbs Me (Cottonwood Heights, Draper: real estate, rent, houses)

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

I've had my coffee with several LDS friends having their hot chocolate or juice - what's the big deal about sharing a pot of coffee? You are sharing companionship! not drinking out of the same cup......

[irman]

Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah

I don't think people who have lived here all their lives, both LDS and non, realize how very different LDS life in UT is, as a practice of religion.

That is even true for LDS originally from Cali.
My better half is related to almost every Tom Dick and Harry you see in the street (if they are LDS), but she grew up in Cali where I met her 40 years ago.
Then 15 years ago we finally settled here in Utah, because the Missus, decided that it was time that our kids got to know their umpteen cousins.
When we first went to church, we were kind of wondering if we did attend the correct church, because it was so different in Cali.

As all other things go, you get used to everything, sooner or later, even hanging, and after the first 5 minutes you do not complain any more.

For all who are a bit put off by the habits of many Utahns who have lived here ALL their life, remember the following:
Almost anything comes in 3 phases.
1 - You abhor it.
2 - You condone it.
3 - You embrace it.

after 15 years here, I am in stage 1.5 ......

[frogandtoad]

Originally Posted by SouthernBelleInUtah

I've had my coffee with several LDS friends having their hot chocolate or juice - what's the big deal about sharing a pot of coffee? You are sharing companionship! not drinking out of the same cup......

I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree. Maybe I was sticking to my coffee example too much! That is not really my larger point, but anyway the bottom line for me is that I don't take asking about places one might fit in as insulting or as meaning they would be better off in another state.

In the Southern forums you have people asking "where can a liberal be accepted?" In the AK forum "are blacks accepted here?" In Iowa you have "will I be accepted if I'm gay?" Basically anywhere someone is in the minority, they sometimes wonder if they will be accepted, and where they might find others in similar situations. It's not an insult to the "main group" nor does it mean they don't ever want to be around the dominant group just b/c they are also looking find others who might be in a similar situation as they. So in Utah, where the social/cultural/religious/political fabric has a large LDS component, the question often comes from those not familiar with the area asking "where can someone not LDS fit in?"

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Originally Posted by frogandtoad

I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree. Maybe I was sticking to my coffee example too much! That is not really my larger point, but anyway the bottom line for me is that I don't take asking about places one might fit in as insulting or as meaning they would be better off in another state.

In the Southern forums you have people asking "where can a liberal be accepted?" In the AK forum "are blacks accepted here?" In Iowa you have "will I be accepted if I'm gay?" Basically anywhere someone is in the minority, they sometimes wonder if they will be accepted, and where they might find others in similar situations. It's not an insult to the "main group" nor does it mean they don't ever want to be around the dominant group just b/c they are also looking find others who might be in a similar situation as they. So in Utah, where the social/cultural/religious/political fabric has a large LDS component, the question often comes from those not familiar with the area asking "where can someone not LDS fit in?"

Ah, now I see your point.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

OK, now that I'm more awake, I want to answer more fully. While I understand what you are saying, I don't think people worry so much about fitting in, in other places except if they are GLBT. I have seen a number of posts asking if they will be "OK" in other states if a poster is GLBT. And of course I see those types of posts in the SLC forum. I wonder why so many people think the LDS are so very different from them?

I have read that Pres. Hinckley tried to make the LDS more understandable to people of other faiths and seem more mainstream. When I moved here, Fred Greene was all over TV shows with his 5 wives - that sure didn't help. Nor did Warren Jeffs. I don't believe most people outside of UT make much, if any, distinction between LDS, FLDS, and whatever other names are used. I'm not sure that will ever get much better, due to history. And it's a real shame, as the LDS don't marry at 13 y/o and don't have tons of wives and don't kick out their sons. But that is the ignorant public perception.

Faithful LDS folk have a lot of church/family activities that take a lot of time and so the outside perception is that "they" stick together and aren't welcoming. In fact, it is the opposite. I felt very welcomed when I moved here, by people of all and no faiths.

So if you are worried about fitting in here, have some pie and juice with a neighbor and talk about kids, dogs, cats, vacations, jobs, whatever - and you will find that we are all very much the same at heart!

[LoveBoating]

We (wife/I) share "frogandtoad's" reply. People have a right to ask questions about an area they are thinking about moving to......weither those questions involve religion, weather, nationality of people living there, whatever. If I choose not to live in a certain area due to certain reasons, that should be my option. People should not be offended when others want to have a "choice" in where they want to live. I would like to know certain things about an apartment complex, but those things legally can not be told to me!

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

And that legal reason is called discriimination. I just don't think that religion should be such a scary thing to people, whether you have one or not.

The OP's point was not that people shouldn't ask questions, but that the tone of the questions was insulting to him as a practing LDS person. If people asked "will I fit in" or "will I be accepted" that is not the same as asking "where do non-LDS live?"

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by LoveBoating

We (wife/I) share "frogandtoad's" reply. People have a right to ask questions about an area they are thinking about moving to......weither those questions involve religion, weather, nationality of people living there, whatever. If I choose not to live in a certain area due to certain reasons, that should be my option. People should not be offended when others want to have a "choice" in where they want to live. I would like to know certain things about an apartment complex, but those things legally can not be told to me!

what area of jacksonville are you from? my wife and i met while we were living in jacksonville; i loved that area, though i hated the traffic.

****************

i'd just like to second what southernbelle is saying, because she is hitting on a principle of psychology that very few people recognize.

in intercultural relations, humans tend to go into a relationship expecting one of two things. they either expect similarities, or they expect differences. either one of those expectations generally leads to miscommunications and social blunders. but in my experience, expecting differences is much worse.

why? because all of us are ultimately human, all of us are ultimately social animals, all of us are ultimately (with a few exceptions) desirous of and dependent on a healthy social contract. all of us–regardless of religion–have probably *80-90% of the same moral beliefs and another 5-10% vaguely similar beliefs; whatever percentage is left generally ends up being the defining issues that divide our societies and cause social problems.

*legal disclaimer: these numbers have not been reviewed by societal experts of any kind, are not indicative of the views of this station or its management, and reflect only the ideas and experiences of stycotl and the hoodlums with which he associates.

ahem–where was i?

oh yes, we end up dividing ourselves over the tiniest little differences; wars even start that way, between the arrogant elite of differing nations who would probably be great friends if they were common neighbors instead of aristocratic fiends.

what is my point? i'm getting there.

i don't really see anything wrong with any of the questions being asked. i don't take it personally when nonmormons ask where the other nonmormon residents are. it doesn't hurt my feelings, and i don't think that it needs to rock my boat at all.

but most of that is because i see their questioning as uninformed, rather than malicious. there are some people that move here with huge amounts of anti-lds loathing, and you can see it in their eyes when they are talking to you (or in their words when they are posting on cd), but by and large, they don't have anything against the lds; they are just cautious, and probably buying into the horror stories told by chick tracts and others.

is utah weird? hell yes. i was born and raised here, and i still chaff at some of utah's tradition. however, i understand that utah tradition is different than mormon tradition, and different than mormon belief or doctrine.

for example, those idiots that won't let their kids hang out at nonmormon homes, or play with nonmormon kids–that is not even remotely mormon doctrine. i suppose that i shouldn't call them idiots, but it seems fitting to me. if anyone is offended, feel free to let me know; i have happy to acknowledge my biases.

anyway, as i said, i think that those questions are understandable, and i don't think anything is inherently offensive about them, but i do think that there are better mindsets to enter the state (or any other new area) with.

as far as human nature is concerned, it is generally safe to assume similariites. assuming differences is like assuming that they are a different species with different social and emotional needs. it is when you get into traditions and specific beliefs (the 5% or less difference that we start wars over) that you don't want to assume anything.

aaron out.

[lolagranola]

I was going to "second" SouthernBelle as well!

MY H and I are "non"s, and when we moved here 8 yrs ago I was only vaguely aware of the majority religion. And it took me a good 2 years or so to recognize it was a problem with some people. I've said before that if I knew from the start that I had to choose up sides, I would have been against the LDS!

We have had no problem being accepted or fitting in. Total opposite in fact.

While I know that people are looking for a place to meet their needs and gather information, I am fed up with there being a new thread daily on us vs. them!!

For every new post on the topic, I want to reply "They are people. Most are great, some are annoying". oooooooooorrrrrrrrr, "They are scarey nasty cultmembers! stay away!!"

[Chickrae]

Originally Posted by irman

That is even true for LDS originally from Cali.
My better half is related to almost every Tom Dick and Harry you see in the street (if they are LDS), but she grew up in Cali where I met her 40 years ago.
Then 15 years ago we finally settled here in Utah, because the Missus, decided that it was time that our kids got to know their umpteen cousins.
When we first went to church, we were kind of wondering if we did attend the correct church, because it was so different in Cali.

I can relate to this...as an LDS person moving from California to Utah. It's different living as LDS in Utah then any other state. Now I am in the bible belt....a whole type of different for an LDS person. It has challenges. But I will agree with what someone said as far as moving to an area that has a predominant religion.....I knew when I move to OK there would be tons of baptists, in no way would I ask to live where the baptists don't live. I respect the religion of the area and we get along fine. I do mine, they do theirs and everybody is happy