Something that Disturbs Me (Salt Lake City, Sandy: credit, school, quality of life)

[carlymac]

OK FrogandToad. Some of your comments come across as pretty small-minded and highlight the attitude that at the most ruffles our feathers, and at the least makes us realize how limited and judgemental you are. You said you don't want to live in a neighborhood with "women who are 30 with 5 kids". But you do want to hang around " women who didn't marry til well into their 30s b/c they were traveling the world and going to grad school". And "I want to have a glass of wine with friends, go to have coffee with friends."

It's this stereotyping of LDS people in a derogatory light that is so tiresome to us. Some of the most fascinating and intelligent women also have large families. Many active, faithful LDS women didn't get married til later in life. They were in grad school and traveling the world (Moi for instance). I have many friends, not LDS who had 5-6 kids by their early 30's. I am active LDS and have gone out with wonderful friends who have a glass of wine or a beer with dinner and coffee afterward. I live in MN right now but we socialized with people of many faiths (and no faith) before moving from Utah.

I can understand your wanting to hang around your own kind of people but it's this need to stick it to Mormons while you're at it that bites. We don't have a disease. What are you afraid of? Really? Why are young families with children so intolerable? We are normal, albeit busy people. We are just as much in need of understanding and acceptance from atheists or whoever ,as you are from us. We get a bit resentful of being pidgeon-holed and boxed in by "outsiders" before even being given a chance. I think those of you who insist on walling yourselves off from LDS are missing out on an opportunity to interract with some really great, interesting, kind and good people. There are some bad apples among the bunch, too. It might be really fun for you to get to know some rotten Mormons.

Someone else mentioned something about dating without religion being an issue. My LDS son has a female friend here in MN who is Lutheran and HER parents won't let her go out with HIM. We would certainly allow him to go out with her but for some reason, people have this really messed up view of what we're about. Who wouldn't want their daughter to go out with a young man who has been taught his whole life to respect women and to NOT have sex with them till marriage? Do they WANT their daughters to be promiscuous?

I mean, I just can't figure out what's not to like about us. If you want to have a beer, go ahead. Just don't have 6 and then expect us to want you hanging around. But I believe that distaste for drunken behavior crosses religious lines. It's not just Mormons that don't want to be killed by a drunk driver or be exposed to the kind of behavior that happens while people are under the influence of drugs of any kind. Hopefully, any decent person will also have a distaste for vulgar language and conversation with too much sexual overtone. I would hope that kind of thing is repulsive to any human being with half a brain regardless of where, who or how they worship.

It's this whole inuendo of Mormons being so weird, dull, sheep-like, holier-than-thou, pushy snooty, judgemental and exclusive that comes across on this forum that perpetuates the "us vs. them" sentiments. I honestly don't think it's coming from the Mormons. It's generating from a loud minority of insecure individuals who don't know how to relate to people in general and need a scapegoat -"The Whole Mormon Population" to blame it on. And there we are in Utah, a goat as big and convenient as the Rocky Mountain range itself. Just really a shame!

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Well said, Carlymac.

[kaytidid]

Ditto! We had a neighbor that lived next to us for a while. He moved from FL, but was originally from NY (the state, not the city). He was also Catholic, as am I. Let me tell you, that man drank like there was no other and had his language would make a sailor blush. I could NOT stand to be around him. I didn't want my kids to be around him. It wouldn't have mattered if he were an Apostle himself, I would have still felt the same. Having a disdain for behavior like that isn't just an LDS thing. Props to you, Carlymac for a well written post!

[Katzpur]

My neighborhood is in the suburbs (Cottonwood Heights, actually) and is just about 50% LDS. We know most of the LDS families on our street a little bit better than we do most of the non-LDS families, but we're on good terms with all of them and will stop and chat if we're walking the dogs, etc. And some of them (I'm thinking primarily of a Catholic couple across the street) that we are really pretty close to. I really do relate to the concerns expressed in the OP. It's hard to want to go out of your way to be friendly when people move to Utah with an attitude of, "Well, we're going to be moving to Utah soon. Where can we buy a home where we won't have a lot of LDS neighbors?"

[utah4grad]

Originally Posted by markg91359

Federal law prohibits housing discrimination based on religion.

...for individuals or businesses engaged in the "business of selling or renting dwellings." This is broadly interpreted as individuals who own more than 3 individual dwellings that they rent out and/or sell more than 2 houses in a year.

I just wanted to clear up this common misconception. I personally embrace the opportunity to live amongst people with alternative viewpoints.

[markg91359]

..for individuals or businesses engaged in the "business of selling or renting dwellings." This is broadly interpreted as individuals who own more than 3 individual dwellings that they rent out and/or sell more than 2 houses in a year.

I just wanted to clear up this common misconception. I personally embrace the opportunity to live amongst people with alternative viewpoints.
.................................................. .................................................. ..

Thanks for the clarification. This statute applies to real estate agents who sell more than two houses a year. Which, I at least suspect, is most real estate agents even in a bad housing market.

I spoke to an agent who was a friend of my some time ago. He told me that with some frequency, he does encounter non-LDS people looking for a house here who say things like they "don't want to live around a bunch of Mormons". When he hears this all he can do is try to change the subject as quick as he can.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Originally Posted by markg91359

..for individuals or businesses engaged in the "business of selling or renting dwellings." This is broadly interpreted as individuals who own more than 3 individual dwellings that they rent out and/or sell more than 2 houses in a year.

I just wanted to clear up this common misconception. I personally embrace the opportunity to live amongst people with alternative viewpoints.
.................................................. .................................................. ..

Thanks for the clarification. This statute applies to real estate agents who sell more than two houses a year. Which, I at least suspect, is most real estate agents even in a bad housing market.

I spoke to an agent who was a friend of my some time ago. He told me that with some frequency, he does encounter non-LDS people looking for a house here who say things like they "don't want to live around a bunch of Mormons". When he hears this all he can do is try to change the subject as quick as he can.

How pathetic of those folks.

I really don't know what else the LDS church can do to make people understand that they are not some weird cult. Sunday services are open to anyone who wants to visit, the church has all those disaster relief trucks stationed around the country where natural disasters might occur (like after Hurrican Katrina), and the welfare organization helps anyone who needs it. I used to refer homeless/down on their luck patients to the Bishop's Storehouse all the time - work some and get food in return.

The HBO program "Big LOve" is not representative of LDS people yet that sure has gotten a lot of publicity.

OTOH, people moving around the South are pretty careful not to buy in a "black" area. I guess we have a ways to go as a society!

[eggalegga]

Originally Posted by frogandtoad

Well, I wanted to know where "nons" lived and I am very glad I found out. I would NOT be happy in a neighborhood with women who are 30 with 5 kids. I would have nothing in common with these people. I don't believe in God. I don't want to be exclusively surrounded by people who do. That would stunt some conversations b/c a lot of people in UT base a lot of their decisions on teachings from "God" and I think it's a hilarious joke. That's not an ideal situation. I want to have a glass of wine with friends, go to have coffee with friends. Not so easy when surrounded by LDS.

I have no problems with LDS, Catholics or any other religion per se. It's not the religion itself. It's wanting to be around people who are similar to me. Women who didn't marry til well into their 30s b/c they were traveling the world and going to grad school; women who don't care one iota about religion and love to pop a bottle of beer on a Sat. afternoon; etc.

So I have no problem at all living in a 50% area. I have LDS friends, but I love that when I do want a coffee, or a beer, I also have friends right nearby who can do that. LDS friends can do other things w/me (hike, hang out w/o beer (!), etc).

I think it's FINE to look for non-LDS dominant areas. I would be MISERABLE (and I mean that all caps!) in Lehi or Draper or any of those places. Even going to shop there, seeing 20-somethings with 3-5 kids in tow makes me so thankful I asked where the less-LDS areas are. And for that matter, where the "metro Mormons" are (as my LDS neighbor calls herself, as she does not buy into the early marriage, tons of kids bit but does go to church and is LDS).

I love SLC and think it's a GREAT place. There's a place for everyone in UT, but you have to ask teh questions to figure out the fit!!

BTW, I would not be offended at all if someone wanted to live in an area not full of atheist wine lovers who were their grandparents age before thinking about kids! I'd totally understand we have little in common.

I too wouldn't want to live in an area around a 30 year old woman with 5+ kids. I too would want to live near friends who enjoyed alcohol or coffee. I too would want to live in an area with people who had similar interests/beliefs as I have. I see nothing wrong with wanting to fit-in and enjoy the neighborhood in which I live.

I am a Utah native. Grew up in Utah county.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by eggalegga

I too wouldn't want to live in an area around a 30 year old woman with 5+ kids. I too would want to live near friends who enjoyed alcohol or coffee. I too would want to live in an area with people who had similar interests/beliefs as I have. I see nothing wrong with wanting to fit-in and enjoy the neighborhood in which I live.

I am a Utah native. Grew up in Utah county.

So it looks like you still live in Utah. Did you find someplace where you have a majority of non-LDS neighbors?

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Originally Posted by eggalegga

I too wouldn't want to live in an area around a 30 year old woman with 5+ kids. I too would want to live near friends who enjoyed alcohol or coffee. I too would want to live in an area with people who had similar interests/beliefs as I have. I see nothing wrong with wanting to fit-in and enjoy the neighborhood in which I live.

I am a Utah native. Grew up in Utah county.

So your only interests are coffee, alcohol, few kids, what? I have plenty of interests in common with my neighbors. With some, it is an interest in gardening and keeping our houses nice-looking. With some, it is preserving our quality of life in the 'hood. With some, it is sharing a coffee. With some, it is enjoying the symphony. With some, it is common political beliefs and activism. And on and on.