My impression of Salt Lake City and LDS after 5 days (college, to live)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by frogandtoad

Interesting. Rant and appreciation of rant based entirely on skewed understanding of the Muslim religion based on a VERY small percentage of the more radical Muslims.

Sorry to disappoint you, froggy, but my appreciation of the admitted rant had absolutely nothing to do with the reference to Islam. It was specifically with regards to the following statements:

Originally Posted by Chango

Why can't this forum get over mormons and talk about Utah instead. The friggin' mormon "holy land" is in Missouri for god's sake and the majority of Mormons do not live in Utah.

Do people actually fear walking down the street in Salt Lake because someone might come smile at them and try to give them a book of mormon OR shun them like the plague for being an unbeliever? It's NEVER happend to me.

[stycotl]

holy crap, people! we trying to start the next crusade?

first off, in reference to chango's last post: i don't think that calling frog a hater was even remotely called for. maybe i need to look harder at her (if i remember right...) post history, but i haven't seen any hating going on. definitely none in this thread.

second, there is a huuuuuge point to be made in the fact that yes, despite its differences, utah is mostly the same as anywhere else you go.

but, and this is a big but, there are also huuuuge differences. if you read through my post history, you might notice that i have a pet peeve about people thinking utahns or mormons are aliens. we're still people, still humans, with the same strengths, weaknesses, habits and desires as the rest of the world–in general.

but there is a large difference in culture, and frog is right that the mormon culture bleeds into almost all aspects of society in utah, from politics to school curriculum. there is nothing inherently wrong with that–to a degree–and beside that, this is an issue for another thread, but utah definitely has a different culture. in fact, different areas of utah have different cultures.

so, back to the argument against frogandtoad, i think that some of you may have expected that she was going somewhere negative with this, and are jumping on her for that reason. but all i have heard her say so far in this thread is that it is different, not that it is bad, or worse, or anything else.

now, coolcats (nice to see you back, by the way) had a good point here as well: utah might be different in culture, but that doesn't necessarily make it a huge difference. some people come here and fit in immediately, whether they are mormon or not. some other people come here and feel like they've landed on mars, again, whether they are mormon or not.

but the fundamental thing here that i think some people forget is that this happens everywhere, in every society, throughout all of the history of human civilization. it is a human element that does not care about religious, political, ethnic, or other boundaries.

anyway, my rant is now done as well.

don't make me come back here with my fist shaking...
http://johngushue.typepad.com/photos...er_simpson.jpg

happy friday!

aaron out.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by frogandtoad

Well I've lived all over the U.S. and I find Utah feels very different from anywhere I've lived before. Religion is infused into everything including politics, the culture, etc. It reminds me of when I lived in a Muslim country in that way--the religion, the culture, the politics are all intertwined.

Honestly, 5 days? I mean, basically this person has been here less time than someone who comes on vacation, yet everyone is saying how great this opinion is while on another thread slamming people who post their impressions after only being here on vacation. So it's only OK to post your opinions after a few days if they are positive?

I love UT. And I do agree it's underrated gem. But I find the "it's just like every other place" thing to be totally wrong in my opinion and think people should understand they might not find it to be like other places. For some that's ok, for others not.

Of course this person wouldn't know if someone is LDS by walking into stores They aren't wearing a tattoo on their forehead. It's about a difference in culture and belief systems, not looks!

I think you and Sunshine both made valid points. I live in CA and the stereotypes/prejudices about UT I hear from my fellow Californians border on the ridiculous at times (and I live in the so-called liberal and open minded Bay Area).

At the same time, living only somewhere 5 days is not enough time to really evaluate. Unless you move somewhere really dumpy, I think there is a 2 year "honeymoon period" where you notice all the good things about your new place that your old one didn't have....and then the annoying stuff starts to wear on you. I know that's how it was for me when I moved to California. I notice this same thing happening to a friend of mine 2 years ago. He loves living in the Bay Area, but some of the negative aspects of living here are wearing on him a bit.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Chango

I don't know why you are such a hater, but it seems you and a lot of people on this forum are looking under rocks for a "mormon scourge" that just isn't there. THAT is a skewed opinion. I'm sure the vast majority of people living in this state never have a problem with them. Why do you?

A hater? I didn't get that vibe from frogandtoad at all.

[marmichalski]

Originally Posted by Chango

Do people actually fear walking down the street in Salt Lake because someone might come smile at them and try to give them a book of mormon OR shun them like the plague for being an unbeliever? It's NEVER happend to me. In fact, I got a TONS more religious solicitations when I lived in Los Angeles than Salt Lake. Rant over

Recruitment efforts are probably best spent over in California. THink about it,if your randomly approach people in Utah more often than not,your preaching to the choir.

[frogandtoad]

Originally Posted by Chango

I don't know why you are such a hater, but it seems you and a lot of people on this forum are looking under rocks for a "mormon scourge" that just isn't there. THAT is a skewed opinion. I'm sure the vast majority of people living in this state never have a problem with them. Why do you?

I hadn't looked at this thread in a while, but I think it's very inaccurate of you, not to mention ironic and rather mean-spirited, that you are calling me a hater. I have said many times I love UT. And I have no trouble with it being a largely LDS state (or at least 50%). All I was saying that is that it does not feel like every other state to me. It has its own culture, feel, etc. because of the church, and that should not be downplayed. I do not want UT to become 2% LDS. I'm fine with it how it is. I have friends who are LDS. But none of these things takes away from the what I see as reality: that UT has a very different culture from the rest of the U.S. Very.

I have no problem with anyone based on their religion and if you think I do, then you are not reading what I am writing with unbiased eyes. Different does not equal bad. I said different, not bad. And I meant different, not bad.

[frogandtoad]

Originally Posted by coolcats

I think the original poster’s point was that it does not seem that much different than the rest of the United States. If you randomly chose someone from another state and plopped them down on State Street, they would not immediately be overwhelmed with the vast differences from where they came from.

If you plopped that random person down on the streets of Cairo, language barrier aside, they would immediately be overwhelmed by the vast cultural differences. Now with time, you do notice things that are different, like LDS General Conference being on TV twice a year, or (a few) more stores being closed on Sundays, or LDS-themed books being sold at Walmart. But I get a kick out of people who want to eradicate the presence of LDS culture from Utah. After all, you can’t ignore the history of the Mormons settling a desert no one wanted after being kicked out of much more fertile lands back East.

Well, I certainly don't want to "eradicate" anyone! And I don't want anything specific about the population of UT to change. I like it here how it is. But I still think that it IS very different from other places I've lived in the U.S. And I think there's a lot more to it than a tv program or books at Walmart. I know I'm not alone in thinking this either, as I've spoken to LDS friends from another state who moved here and said they were overwhelmed with the LDS culture here. That it went from being a church they went to once/week to being completely part of the culture (for the record, they left UT). That's how I "see" it, "feel" it, etc. But I don't have a problem with it. I just point out that it exists, to me and to others I've spoken with. Why there is so much aggression against the idea here on city-data, and yet it's spoken openly abotu with people I know (both LDS and non-LDS) I don't know.

[frogandtoad]

Originally Posted by Chango

I don't know why you are such a hater, but it seems you and a lot of people on this forum are looking under rocks for a "mormon scourge" that just isn't there. THAT is a skewed opinion. I'm sure the vast majority of people living in this state never have a problem with them. Why do you?

I don't have a problem with LDS. Why do you think that it's a problem to say there is a different culture here b/c of the historical predominance of the church here? Why do you equate a difference in culture, which I feel is easily felt, with hatred?

[frogandtoad]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Sorry to disappoint you, froggy, but my appreciation of the admitted rant had absolutely nothing to do with the reference to Islam. It was specifically with regards to the following statements:

OK, well then I apologize. It followed the post on Islam, and his skewed understanding of Islam, so I thought that was what you were appreciating. If not, then I misunderstood and I'm sorry.

That said, I don'nt understand what you were appreciating. I have never heard anyone say they are worried about getting chased down the street by LDS with Books of Mormon. I've never heard anyone say they are afraid of them, and VERY rarely has anyone said they might get "shunned" for not being LDS (though you do have to allow people their own experiences, and this could happen although certainly it would not be in line with teaching from the LDS church).

And maybe Missouri is considered the holy land for LDS, I don't know. I think I read they believe that is where something will happen in the future? Not sure, but anyway if that's true, it is also true that SLC, UT is the LDS capital of the world. The high rise office buildings, Temple Square, the LDS Business College (or whatever it's called), the homes of past people of import to the LDS religion, This is the Place Heritage State Park, the document storage facility, etc etc. LDS has a clear and strong presence in people, historical places, modern day buildings, culture, politics, etc. I would venture to guess that even if Missouri is the holy land, the LDS presence is, in 2009, felt far more strongly in UT. Which again, IS NOT TO SAY IS BAD. If I were LDS, I would be very proud of this. As non-LDS, I find it interesting historically, and have no problem with it. It's an interesting history/religion which I respect, but which is not my own. I think a lot of LDS have pride in this, but for some reason it's a point of contention on this board.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by coolcats

But I get a kick out of people who want to eradicate the presence of LDS culture from Utah. After all, you can’t ignore the history of the Mormons settling a desert no one wanted after being kicked out of much more fertile lands back East.

You just have to remember that there is a small percentage of people in the United States who oppose any free exercise or expression of religious faiths. I have experienced that at some point in MOST cities that I have lived in.

While I am not LDS, I have never been uncomfortable in any of the cities in Utah where I have worked.