Over 1000 kids absent today between Brandeis & O'Connor... (Taft: activity, radio)

[Reserve at WC]

Originally Posted by sapphire

As of today, they are STILL allowing the wolves at Warren to wear their tails.

So the school district will allow kids to wear tails but will suspend students for having highlights in their hair? I think it's time to rewrite the handbooks and get our priorities back to learning.

[RGJ]

Well, you can't wear tails at Madison. Not sure if that's true at all NEISD schools.

[buffy888]

Originally Posted by Merovee

Qualified peopled....but do they have proper protocols in place to insure that bullying is reported and properly responded too?

The very fact that two suicides occurred does not sound like they had a plan that works. It was failure, not that the schools are primarily responsible, but in the area where they should have been, that is insuring that their schools are harassment free zones, in that area they failed.

Most know and understand that schools have traditionally failed in this area and that no progress has been made but that in fact it has become more vicious.

Can you expand further upon how schools can ensure that they are harassment-free zones? It takes quite a bit for a student to even get suspended from school, much less expelled. If a school is actually able to successfully expel the student, then the student goes to another school and bullies there and starts the behavior intervention/office referral/whatever process all over again... And the cycle continues. A school can't refuse to enroll the bully based on past behavior. You mentioned the schools are not primarily responsible for all of the wolf pack stuff, fear of shootings, etc. going on now at the area schools, but also that they have failed in regards to making their schools free of harassment. If there is a way to truly prevent this, I'm all for it. Kids shouldn't have to put up with being bullied.

Yes, schools can take a stance against bullying and adults can intervene when it is observed, but how can a school realistically ensure that no bullying will ever occur? All the anti-bullying rallies and posters, the positive classroom communities, etc. aren't going to stop a true bully from picking on other kids. Even if a student was expelled the first time they bullied another student (which would realistically not happen, even with proof), then the harassment still happened at least one time - is the school responsible for that?
A student from one class goes into the restroom, and a student from a different grade level/different teacher goes in shortly thereafter and starts to harass the first student. Could the school have prevented this? Even in elementary school, if a class took restroom breaks together, if there are boys in the class as well as girls and the teacher is a male - how could he prevent bullying in the girls' restroom?
Two kids walk to school - one harasses the other every day on the way to school. Is this also the school's responsibility?
A student doesn't have the same interests as some other students. Those other students are close friends because of their shared interests (choir, dance team, Justin Bieber, whatever). They do not slight the other student, do not purposely exclude her, are not mean to her, but neither do they include her as they run across the playground to talk about the cute new boy. Is this bullying? According to some parents, yes it is because their kid was left out. Those parents then tell their kid to combat this by physically or verbally bullying the other kids.

Also, bullies are often children of bullies. So if their child receives a stiff consequence for purported bullying (especially without proof), that parent will likely bully their way into the principal's office, the school board's next meeting, or the superintendent's office. The school board or superintendent backs down from fear of a lawsuit - the bully (kid) has won and the parents are reassured that bullying is the way to go.

I know bullying and harassment can be horrible things. I just don't know if it is realistic to say that schools have failed in this area. I think schools are more aware of it than they have been in the past and are creating school pledges, having counselors give guidance lessons, etc., but I am at a loss to know how they can stop harassment 100%.

[mamatotex97]

just like we don't allow the bandanas for gangs or what not, the tails should not be allowed. In light of everything regardless of who you side with, it does seem to be a distraction.

[buffy888]

WOAI is showing promos about talking to local wolf pack kids - tonight on 10 P.M. news.

[Merovee]

Originally Posted by buffy888

Can you expand further upon how schools can ensure that they are harassment-free zones? It takes quite a bit for a student to even get suspended from school, much less expelled. If a school is actually able to successfully expel the student, then the student goes to another school and bullies there and starts the behavior intervention/office referral/whatever process all over again... And the cycle continues. A school can't refuse to enroll the bully based on past behavior. You mentioned the schools are not primarily responsible for all of the wolf pack stuff, fear of shootings, etc. going on now at the area schools, but also that they have failed in regards to making their schools free of harassment. If there is a way to truly prevent this, I'm all for it. Kids shouldn't have to put up with being bullied.

Yes, schools can take a stance against bullying and adults can intervene when it is observed, but how can a school realistically ensure that no bullying will ever occur? All the anti-bullying rallies and posters, the positive classroom communities, etc. aren't going to stop a true bully from picking on other kids. Even if a student was expelled the first time they bullied another student (which would realistically not happen, even with proof), then the harassment still happened at least one time - is the school responsible for that?

I can describe how we can achieve harassment-free zones in spirit. First of all harassment-free zone does not mean harassment will never occur, what it does mean is that when it does occur steps will be taken to insure it does not continue.

As far as how schools can ensure harassment-free zones I am as much at a loss as you, as our educators and schools boards are too, in being able to describe how to do that down to the letter.

I think some of us know though that it needs to be done. That is why I suggested they seek specialized help.

Originally Posted by buffy888

A student from one class goes into the restroom, and a student from a different grade level/different teacher goes in shortly thereafter and starts to harass the first student. Could the school have prevented this? Even in elementary school, if a class took restroom breaks together, if there are boys in the class as well as girls and the teacher is a male - how could he prevent bullying in the girls' restroom?
Two kids walk to school - one harasses the other every day on the way to school. Is this also the school's responsibility?

The school's responsibility is simply to create an environment where bullying can be reported by victims, student witnesses, or adults witnessing it and then to know it will be followed up properly.

For now that simply means they need the proper plan in place because they do not have one that works as evident by this tragic loss.

Originally Posted by buffy888

A student doesn't have the same interests as some other students. Those other students are close friends because of their shared interests (choir, dance team, Justin Bieber, whatever). They do not slight the other student, do not purposely exclude her, are not mean to her, but neither do they include her as they run across the playground to talk about the cute new boy. Is this bullying? According to some parents, yes it is because their kid was left out. Those parents then tell their kid to combat this by physically or verbally bullying the other kids.

We cannot force anyone to make friends, students have a right to exclude others in social situations, teachers cannot exclude anyone, but that is not the same as harassment that leads to suicide. The fact is though that the two can go hand in hand but it is the vicious type of harassment that needs to be clearly defined and singled out.

Originally Posted by buffy888

Also, bullies are often children of bullies. So if their child receives a stiff consequence for purported bullying (especially without proof), that parent will likely bully their way into the principal's office, the school board's next meeting, or the superintendent's office. The school board or superintendent backs down from fear of a lawsuit - the bully (kid) has won and the parents are reassured that bullying is the way to go.

This is true that bullies are often children of bullies. Some parents even think the students being bullied in this case are the problem and should be penalized. It is actually those kids who should be the focus and who need the most help at this very moment. They are the ones who need protecting and are the most vulnerable in all of this.

The hysterical parents of other students do need to be reassured that all is safe too but their concerns are not as high a priority as the concerns of the parents, family and friends of the two victims.

The school district has much to balance now including trying not to lose more funds over students skipping because of teen gossip and rumors, which some adults are participating in as well.

Originally Posted by buffy888

I know bullying and harassment can be horrible things. I just don't know if it is realistic to say that schools have failed in this area. I think schools are more aware of it than they have been in the past and are creating school pledges, having counselors give guidance lessons, etc., but I am at a loss to know how they can stop harassment 100%.

Schools have failed. That is not to say that they failed in a way that the educators should be held accountable but rather schools have failed because the system currently in place fails to adequately address these issues.

Two children of our community have died, change is needed, it is not about pointing fingers and trying to find people to blame but it is time to look at ourselves and the system and figure out what we can do better.

[L210]

I'm not saying the tails should be allowed, but how would banning them stop any of this? The wolf pack is still going to be around, tails or no tails.

I don't think it's fair to punish these kids based on rumors and that's what would happen if they're all shipped off to an alternative school.

[Merovee]

Tails should not be allowed, that is pretty much something all adults will agree with.

The kids being sent to alternative school is not even a likely consideration but I think it would be unfair as well.

What might be happening is that some of these kids are being farmed out to different schools. If that it true it is a mistake on the school district's behalf.

While steps should be taken to decrease the risk of suicide for all students at this moment it is those in the immediate peer group of the victims who are most at risk. To further isolate them socially will increase that risk. Not something I see the school district likely to do when the game now is decreasing risk.

Not sure if their peer groups are actually being broke up or not.

[L210]

I also think it would be a mistake to break them up. If any of the other members are suicidal, taking them away from their support group and putting them at a school where they don't fit in with anyone will only make things worse.

[Merovee]

That WOAI webcast is finally out though I am unsure how to link it but it is under their video section.

The reporter asks one of them where they wolf part of them came from, a valid question, the response was it is just inside him, he has always loved dogs, had lots of dogs as a kid, and so he 'just started acting like one'. So he does realize he is just acting like one.

Here is a snippet from the e-copy.

"I've been asked about 25 times in the past 3 days if I'm going to pull out a gun," describes pack member J.R. Lowe.

"I think that's one of the reasons why they did that to themselves, because of the way people treat them," explains pack member Jackie Rodriguez of the recent suicides. "It's really harsh, I don't like going to class because people are asking me if I'm going to shoot them and that's not true."

Parents tell News 4 WOAI their children are misunderstood.

"It is different, it is," admits Tracy Grubbs. "But they're great. It's a lifestyle they've chosen and it's their right."

Teen Wolves in San Antonio Schools | WOAI.COM: San Antonio News