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Old 10-06-2010, 03:48 PM
 
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Well the Psalms only helped me, I did not go repeating them in front of others, I agree though and most people do frown on that.

One aspect of what is going on here is the focus is in the totally wrong direction. People want to focus on the kids choice of fashion, their parents, the failing of the school, and I agree those are all worthy of exploration but has anyone looked at these kids themselves?

It appears the two who committed suicide were playing with and blurring gender lines, more common today especially with emo fashions, the boy looked rather effeminate, the female was a bit more boyish, and if they were being bullied it most likely that was why, because of gendered harassment.

Quote:
Gendered harassment is a term used to describe any unwanted behavior that acts to assert and police the boundaries of traditional gender norms: heterosexual masculinity and femininity. It is related to, but different from bullying. (Meyer, 2006)
Quote:
Forms of gendered harassment include: (hetero)sexual harassment, homophobic harassment, and harassment for gender non-conformity (or transphobic harassment). I link these three forms of harassment because they are linked to the norm-setting and policing of narrowly defined traditional heterosexual gender roles (Larkin, 1994; Renold, 2002; Smith & Smith, 1998; Stein, 1995)
Quote:
As I investigated this problem further, I learned that although BGLQT youth are commonly targeted for harassment, they are not the only ones suffering due to the homophobic and heteronormative climate of the school. Any student whose behavior is perceived to be different in some way can be isolated and harassed using anti-gay insults, and any student who wishes to establish his/her place in the social pecking order of the school must engage in heterosexualized discussions and behaviors which often include various forms of gendered harassment
Why anti-bullying programs fail to make school safer | Psychology Today

The following two videos are form youtube, each one dedicated to each of the victims, if viewed I am sure it can be seen how gendered harassment was more likely the greatest contributing factor in causing their suicides.


YouTube - Amanda R.I.P. 9/22/2010


YouTube - R.I.P. Deikitsen Wolfram Lupus

Quote:
Students who are harassed in their schools have been found to be more likely to skip school, abuse drugs and alcohol, and have a higher rate of suicidal ideation (Bagley, Bolitho, & Bertrand, 1997; Irving & Parker-Jenkins, 1995; Rigby & Slee, 1999; Sharp, 1995; Slee, 1995).
Why anti-bullying programs fail to make school safer | Psychology Today

This is what science can tell us and what I would rather rely on. Sorry if it is too much for some but I would rather base my views on that instead of uninformed prejudices.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:24 PM
 
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I agree, especially in these later years, so many nowadays simply don't hesitate to say: "I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT!!!!!"




But back to topic: you and I pretty much feel the same way about a lot of things, especially the Gendered Harassment thing.....yes, I do agree that oftentimes bullying is inculcatingly-taught as well as perhaps maybe even as a {misguided? outdated?} sort of "Rites to Adulthood".....but then again I also felt the same way when I was still being messed with mainly by hounding "Jocks" {who I cynically-told myself often that perhaps their parents weren't whippin' their entitled a**es in line at home enough} when I was either in High School Band or later on in Dance Class, not just because I was a skateboarding, multi-coloured hair, bass guitar playing, MetalPunk "Freak".....


.....oh, I done GOTS my Freak Flag Flying!









"Anyone who dares to be, can never be weak." -Chinese Proverb
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:44 PM
 
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We have all been a bully at some point in our lives whether we admit it or not. It may not have been physically injuring or picking on people or calling people names. Did you ever spread rumors or stories about someone, tell others about something that was told to you in private, excluded others from groups, shunned someone, socially alienate? This is indirect bullying. I work at an elementary school and see kids as young as kinder and first grade exhibit these behaviors. We need more awareness and education at this level. I try my best to be vigilant with this issue, and when I see it happen I address it with the student immediately, document it and inform the teacher.
Sadly, many young people had to die for us to realize the gravity of this problem.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:28 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
4,149 posts, read 4,709,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodLu View Post
Once I calmed down way back I myself was a Bible-toting Born Again Christian for some years preaching and preaching and preaching.....




Later on I had a change of heart, and mind.....but that's another subject, of course.......

Well, I guess there's hope for this country after all.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, Texas
467 posts, read 911,201 times
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I was picked-on in elementary school by a certain someone,..took it,..didn't say anything about it,..and lived by my "later on slogen",.."what comes around, goes around",..I find out later on in life the Dip-**** is doing time in prison,..oh well, took some time,..but time does tell...
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:39 PM
 
33 posts, read 67,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillCountryHotRodMan View Post
I got bullied in school once until I kicked the punk's !@# and never had trouble again from 7th grade through high school. Guess I should have gone easier on the poor sod. People need fathers who teach their kids how to deal with all the trash in this city. I'm glad I was afforded that luxury.

yeajustme, you're going to find that anywhere you go. Kindness is a thing of the past. Very unfortunate. Didn't have to happen that way, but it did.
I couldn't agree more. Bullying, nowadays, is everywhere. And too, it starts for no reason at all. Once upon a time (my time!) they used to bully kids who were perceived as "different", that didn't blend in well, who were weaker (physically speaking), and so forth. Now, they bully everyone, there is no rhyme nor reason.

Growing up, I was bullied in high school. I remember there was this group of four boys (I am a girl, in case my handle doesn't give that away!), who routinely picked on me and a few other girls. Finally, after two years of the most unbearable abuse, I snapped. I kid you not, I almost killed the f*cker who had so many times beaten me up. I just hit him where it hurts while screaming "that is IT, you <expletive deleted> coward!!! You will NOT bother me anymore!!!!!!!!!!" The teacher had to physically tore me away from him while I kept beating him upside the head with a schoolbook. Needles to say, I was never, ever, bothered again, by anyone. In fact, the following year, the little weasel asked me to a dance. As if.

I have a toddler, and I constantly worry about bullying. I wonder what I can do to protect my daughter--to give her enough confidence to not only speak to us freely about any problem, but especially to face the issue in the smartest of ways. Sometimes, offering the other cheek may be the smartest way to deal, sometimes a good punch in the eye will. But the truth of the matter is that kids, teenagers, are impulsive and often not able to make sound choices under pressure or duress. I can only hope that by the time my little girl will be in school, there will be better ways to spot troublemakers and deal with them before things escalate. But I don't know...

Recently, a Youtube video surfaced of this teenage girl beating down on a younger girl. After a minute of this abuse, you see the mother of the bully coming into focus, and while you expect her to stop her daughter, to put an end to the beating, she joins in with the cheering and proceeds to tell her daughter to go on, hit her, hit her hard! It was horrifying. If parents are not only unwilling to correct their kids, but rather incite them to be monsters, there is very little hope of anything changing.

Personally, I will never allow my kid to become a bully. But I will teach her never to become a victim, either.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:50 PM
 
3,669 posts, read 5,901,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodLu View Post
the Gendered Harassment thing.....yes, I do agree that oftentimes bullying is inculcatingly-taught as well as perhaps maybe even as a {misguided? outdated?} sort of "Rites to Adulthood"
It begins with attitudes, not sure if those attitudes are outdated because so many still adopt them, they are certainly misguided.

Currentl
y gendered harassment impacts society, especially our youth to a greater degree than ever before, as the media is now spotlighting, so by recognizing it is a social issue we can work down from there.

Some of these attitudes are first nature with many so most might not even realize they are engaging in gender harassment. As a matter of fact I have even ran into it recently here when another c-d user commented on my choice of words by stating 'as you so gayly put it'.

Singling out someone because of the way someone speaks or because of their vocabulary is rather common it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakmke View Post
I try my best to be vigilant with this issue, and when I see it happen I address it with the student immediately, document it and inform the teacher.
I commend you as a teacher. Not all are aware or considerate. Gendered harassment might have also been recently defined but the phenomena is quite old.

I remember one teacher I had, here in a local school, instead of helping me when he knew I was being bullied actually joined in the torment and encouraged the others who would always laugh...

...when he would address me with a female name, Samantha, then he thought he would be slick and call me Sam for the remainder of the year which would still incite laughter, this was in the 1980's, I was in the fourth grade. *sighs*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachuco2 View Post
I was picked-on in elementary school by a certain someone,..took it,..didn't say anything about it,..and lived by my "later on slogen",.."what comes around, goes around",..I find out later on in life the Dip-**** is doing time in prison,..oh well, took some time,..but time does tell...
Yes, I have noticed this pattern throughout life, some of my greatest tormentors I have later come to find out have met terrible ends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GollyMissMolly View Post
Finally, after two years of the most unbearable abuse, I snapped.

...

Needles to say, I was never, ever, bothered again, by anyone. In fact, the following year, the little weasel asked me to a dance. As if.
So very cute in a way that he asked you to the dance, aww.

But yes, it would seem every year I would end up hitting a point where I couldn't take it and would finally lash out, I don't recall ever losing those fights, they always worked in getting the bullies to back off. But since I never liked fighting it was not in my nature to just attack them, of course you always think if you fight back they will hurt you even worse, but sometimes you cannot help to just lash out on impulse. If I had my choice I would have never had to fight to begin with.

With girls I have noticed throughout life that at times they can be bullied severely for their looks, either for being unattractive, or for being too attractive.

Last edited by Merovee; 10-06-2010 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:03 PM
 
7,002 posts, read 10,246,200 times
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People are self-centered these days and have no regard for anyone else. You can even see it in the way people drive around here.

I really don't understand this phenomenon with kids and young adults harassing gay and lesbian or perceived to be gay and lesbian peers. I heard a few anti-gay jokes in school; but the gay, lesbian, and bisexual students weren't harassed. It was 2004, not 1964 and being friends with a gay person was no big deal.

Some people are born psychopaths and some people grow up to be sociopaths. Someone being a bully is often a sign of a personality that will lead them to a life of crime or despair.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:10 AM
 
1,131 posts, read 1,500,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakmke View Post
We have all been a bully at some point in our lives whether we admit it or not. It may not have been physically injuring or picking on people or calling people names. Did you ever spread rumors or stories about someone, tell others about something that was told to you in private, excluded others from groups, shunned someone, socially alienate? This is indirect bullying. I work at an elementary school and see kids as young as kinder and first grade exhibit these behaviors. We need more awareness and education at this level.
Agreed on everything you posted above, cakmke. You are right. It's embarrassing.....


There was this one time shortly before I finally blew-up from all of the bullying and "found my claws", so to speak. In 7th Grade I saw a very good friend of mine getting picked-on one day over and over and over and over and over nonstop by a gang of some older guys, and me and the rest of the 3-4 guys that were originally there with my friend just cowardly stood there. Paralyzed with fear, I guess you could say. We all did nothing. Said nothing. At all. These bullies were big and tall.


To this very day recalling that particular embarrassing event kills me. I will never forget it nor live it down. An Immortal Guilt that burns me to this day. I will always hate myself for that.....but that instance and several similar others that occurred before and afterwards that one seem to relentlessly-fuel me and assertively-dictate My Future Actions now. I still hate myself for certain things both done and undone in the past. *I* am the one who has to look at myself in the mirror.....but I am no Frightened Young Helpless Boy now.....


There was another time when I looked-up from playing with a toy I had in my hand that I saw some HUGE monster of a random hairy burly tall guy angrily-roaring at my mother when we were downtown somewhere. I was about 6-7. Looking at my mother's scared face I just suddenly felt a white-hot fire instantly-burning inside my chest as I realized that no matter what, I was not big nor strong enough to physically do anything to this guy.....so right then the Acid Self-Hate for the numerous next years begun.....


But these later days things are under control within Unorthodox-Me now.....finally.....had some learning to do.....


"Each of us is the sum of our experiences." -something I read somewhere once




Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewtexan View Post
Well, I guess there's hope for this country after all.
Heh, heh, heh.....dunno whatchoo mean by that, NT, but I guess maybe we can just leave it alone? Eh.......




Quote:
Originally Posted by GollyMissMolly View Post
Recently, a Youtube video surfaced of this teenage girl beating down on a younger girl. After a minute of this abuse, you see the mother of the bully coming into focus, and while you expect her to stop her daughter, to put an end to the beating, she joins in with the cheering and proceeds to tell her daughter to go on, hit her, hit her hard! It was horrifying. If parents are not only unwilling to correct their kids, but rather incite them to be monsters, there is very little hope of anything changing.

Personally, I will never allow my kid to become a bully. But I will teach her never to become a victim, either.
Very smart of you to teach your little one to not be a victim.....


"It is better to have and not need Certain Knowledge than need it and not have it." -a brilliant mentor of mine I have not seen in years

"Even if you don't look for the fight, sometimes the fight finds you." -The Gracie Family; MMA Experts


I myself have always sensed that if I was a dad, I would be One Of Those Very Dark Serious Fathers.....because like many: I *know* what's out there in the world, I certainly have my own way of seeing it, recognizing it, and my own way of dealing with it..... .....I suppose that's one of the main personal reasons as to why I have chosen to never make a kid myself, not that I will irresponsibly run away should I ever find out that I actually have one coming on the way..... "To be a man is, precisely, to be responsible." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery


I did see that YOUTUBE video you mentioned also. YOUTUBE is chock-full of all sorts of violent videos; planned and otherwise, I have noticed.....




Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
Some of these attitudes are first nature with many so most might not even realize they are engaging in gender harassment. As a matter of fact I have even ran into it recently here when another c-d user commented on my choice of words by stating 'as you so gayly put it'.
Oh, yeah.....I definitely recall that one when I read it.....and if it ain't one reason to bully, it's another; One's Way Of Speaking included.....




Quote:
Originally Posted by meisha210 View Post
Some people are born psychopaths and some people grow up to be sociopaths. Someone being a bully is often a sign of a personality that will lead them to a life of crime or despair.
Yes, I have also felt exactly the same way about that for years also; Born Psychopaths. Some people, as their actions define them to be anyway, simply seem to have no conscience at all whatsoever.......
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:34 PM
 
33 posts, read 67,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodLu View Post

With girls I have noticed throughout life that at times they can be bullied severely for their looks, either for being unattractive, or for being too attractive.
Absolutely. It's "damned if you do, damned if you don't", for lack of a better platitude. If you are too pretty, if you are not pretty enough, too smart, not smart enough, too fat, too skinny, too this, too that... I don't know or can't figure out what kids want nowadays, what is considered acceptable, nor why would all this even matter so much.

I remember, when I was younger, the only thing I cared about was to get my homework done early enough in the day so I could go out and play, or go to a movie, or shopping with my girlfriends. I didn't give a lick about what others looked like, sounded like, wore or the size of their waistband. And, no, I was not a saint. But none of these considerations made the least bit difference for me.

I don't know if you all remember the case of that young girl, Phoebe Prince, I think in MA, who ended up killing herself because of having been tormented for months relentlessly. She was as cute as a button. These things happen more and more frequently. And when you look at the victims, you cannot help but wonder WHY. Because they all look "normal", there is nothing at all that jumps out or makes you go "aaaaaahhhh!" Not that any "difference" (perceivable or otherwise) would justify tormenting, bullying, harassing a human being.

So... I remain, in the face of each bullying case, completely dumbfounded. Just cannot make heads or tails of anything that's going on with young people anymore. And I thought *WE* were mean!!
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