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Old 10-29-2010, 06:21 AM
 
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That is honest and makes sense. It also reveals some of the resistance is not just based on the ongoing culture war but economics too.

We will have to change more than consumer preferences though. These companies that hurt the environment need to be taxed high until they go out of business or do things in a way that does not harm the environment. If not that some other solution but we cannot just go on business as usual and most understand this is the conservative angle. At least until they change and come on board with everyone else on this.

When it comes to their bottom line versus the legacy we leave behind to our children and grandchildren the latter clearly takes precedence. We also cannot afford to ignore science anymore as some quarters do.
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Old 10-29-2010, 06:24 AM
 
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Full size car - interior volume 120 cu ft or larger

Mid size car - interior volume 110 to 119 cu ft

Compact car - interior volume 100 to 109 cu ft

Chevy Aevo is compact no doubt. 2010 prius is midsize at 112 cu ft with 50+ mpg. Of course the prius will cost more.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:34 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Wow, people are contesting the study that found that the Pruis isn't as good for the environment based on the source; but have no problems posting the opinions from a Pruis owners' forum!

Anyhow, I can only talk from personal experience but two years ago when I was shopping for a new commuter car; I compared a VW diesal Jetta to the Toyota I was actually getting and found at the current price of gasoline versus diesel and the cost difference between the two vehicles it would take me over six years before the Jetta would be more economical than the Toyota!

Now, I do tend to keep my cars longer than that; but add in the increased mainteance costs of a VW (which I know firsthand, as I've owned several of them) and the increased reliability of the Toyota (still #1 despite all the media hysteria over stuck gas pedals), and the statistical answer was clear...go for the Toyota!

I did the same computations with the Pruis versus my Yaris and found similar results. Factor in the additional maintenance costs of the hybrid system (that battery will be well over three grand to replace if that's ever needed) and I came to the conclusion that a subcompact, economical car driven smartly can easily outperform a hybrid that costs considerably more.

Now I took a hit on economy by adding larger, wider tires to my car, and the automatic transmission drops the mileage a bit as well; but in stock form and with a manual transmission it is not uncommon for Yaris owners to get 40+ and even up close to 50 MPG out of their cars! Some "hypermilers" have even come close to 60 MPG using specific techniques.

My bottom line is that I don't mind tax breaks and other incentives for fuel efficient and ecologically-friendly vehicles, but it should be based on other criteria. Simply being a hybrid doesn't mean good gas mileage, it only means better gas mileage than the gasoline-only version of the same model. It would make more sense to put this technology in larger vehicles that can benefit more from it versus smaller cars where the improvement is much less.

I see where that is becoming the trend, but should a GMC Yukon hybrid that still only gets 21 MPG (great for that sized vehicle) be awarded a tax break whereas my Yaris which gets 40+ MPG and which is much more environmentally-friendly doesn't? That just doesn't make sense to me...

Cheers! M2
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
but have no problems posting the opinions from a Pruis owners' forum!
Thanks for pointing that out. I cut and pasted the wrong link....this is the actual link for that quote. It was from a San Francisco Chronicle article, not a Prius forum.

The Hummer vs. the Prius - SFGate

That SFC article also uses the Pacific Institute as a source.

Quote:
The director and co-founder is Dr. Peter Gleick, a MacArthur Fellow and member of the National Academy of Sciences
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Institute

I am going to prefer their conclusions over those from CNW Marketing Research.


I also think people just like to drive fast and we have a love affair with what we consider a "car".

While it is going to take consumers a while to come around, I do not fault those who have not, the main responsibility for changing us to better cars, even if they have less performance power, is the companies who make the cars. Consumers still have a responsibility but we can only purchase what is affordable to begin with and what is available.

The government can also help tip the balance, as it does by offering rebates to consumers, but it can also pressure manufacturers in several ways to change too.

Last edited by Merovee; 10-29-2010 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,399 posts, read 22,889,263 times
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I don't think we'll see a large adoption of smaller cars until our gas prices increase significantly. I noticed an increase when we almost hit $4 a gallon the year before last; but until we see prices close to what they pay in Europe ($6-7+/gallon), the larger vehicles will prevail...

But I will say that from my observations that Europeans are more "in love" with their cars than Americans. Considering the prices they pay, and the cost to operate them, it is amazing at the machines you see on the roads over there (I just got back from a week in Germany). It is pretty uncommon to see cars that are more than 10 years old, or in bad shape, as compared to here. Plus, even with their weather (it rained almost the entire week I was there), most cars I saw were pretty clean. And as for "driving fast," I routinely drove ~80 MPG on the autobahns while there and was probably in the bottom 20% of cars when it comes to speed (in other words, I passed one car for every five that passed me!)

We have just been afforded the luxury of larger cars thanks to the cheaper costs of owning and operating them. There's nothing wrong with that, but we don't have an edge on anyone when it comes to our love for the automobile!

By the way, I saw a British study on the environmental impact of the Pruis that dealt with how so many of its components had to be made at different locations across the globe, and they factored in the amount of energy required to move them to the assembly points. Still, I don't see how it could be more expensive than the Hummer; but I do believe that the "greeness" of the Pruis is more marketing hype than reality, and that there are cheaper, more conventional options out there that are more efficient.

And of course there is that "Hybrid Smug Factor" that irritates so many...myself included!



Cheers! M2
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
but I do believe that the "greeness" of the Pruis is more marketing hype than reality, and that there are cheaper, more conventional options out there that are more efficient.
Well no one can discount this. It is true we are suckers for marketing gimmicks.

I agree there is also a bit of self-righteousness. I am sure some sincerity as well.

And the way you describe Europe here and in the bullet train thread has me wishing to move there. Trains and classy cars (:

No Tex-Mex food is a deal breaker though :/
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:26 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,399 posts, read 22,889,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
And the way you describe Europe here and in the bullet train thread has me wishing to move there. Trains and classy cars (:
Actually, I spent almost half of my USAF career in Europe, and do love it over there but even when I was visiting two weeks ago I was missing San Antonio!

But surprisingly there are a few Tex-Mex style restaurants, at least in Germany as I know. There was one in Lohnsfeld, Germany near us called The Ponderosa that we used to frequent when we lived one village over. There were also ones in Einseidlerhof called Cantina Mexicana and one called La Hacienda near Vogelweh that I actually had my going away luncheon at before being stationed here.

However, there is such a large selection of great places to eat where we were stationed that I couldn't live there anymore; I'd be the size of a SUV if I did!

And oddly enough, I don't recall seeing a lot of hybrids while I was over there this past trip. Probably because they have such a great selection of turbo diesel cars, like the Skoda Octavia I had as a rental.

Cheers! M2
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:35 AM
 
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The Skoda Octavia is a pretty car. My kind of car.

I have a cheap Americanish G6 but it is built like a European car, at least based on the platform of a 2002 Opel Vectra and 2003 Saab 9-3, but I know it does not drive the same and will not last as long. Craftsmanship counts and GM lacks.

It is also interesting to know they have Tex-Mex there, I know our own lovely Patricia Vonne takes Texas music on the road out there but I could not have imagined Tex-Mex food in Germany.

You live a charmed life M2. I am sure you realize that already.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:49 AM
 
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I wish they would make a Suburban or a full size truck as a hybrid...at a decent price. I'm 6'4" and 240lbs.....can't fit in them little cars too comfy. Maybe I should sue for discrimination....lol.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, Tx
8,238 posts, read 10,672,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txtea View Post
I wish they would make a Suburban or a full size truck as a hybrid...at a decent price.
Yup! You can have one but a Tahoe hybrid sets you back about $55K. (20mpg city/23mpg hwy)
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