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Old 05-24-2011, 06:36 AM
 
7,002 posts, read 10,247,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
You'd have to show proof that there was a serious enough problem to be grounds for firing him, or a good enough reason to move him. Otherwise, if he hadn't done anything serious and you fired him, he could sue. At the very least, he could claim unemployment and the company would have had to pay out.

Yes, murdering someone is a serious enough problem for all that...but there's no telling if any of his actions up to that point were anything that his employer could document. If he'd never had a relationship with the woman and wouldn't leave her alone, that would be a clearer situation. This just doesn't sound like it was.

I've had employees who were dating each other or at the least knocking boots with each other (dating implies a relationship other than a sexual one, I think). When it ended, they never wanted to see each other again...but I couldn't pick sides and fire somebody. It wasn't my problem, they needed to find sex partners somewhere other than among their coworkers. If someone had threatened another employee, that would have been a different situation and one I could have acted upon...assuming there was more proof than just his word against hers.
The company is obligated to give out a punishment that is in line with the severity of the offense. We don't know what the victim complained about. If an employer gives someone a warning and the problem doesn't stop, then they can fire the person. Texas is an at-will state and an employer can fire you with or without reason just as long as it's not done in retaliation for whistleblowing or discriminatory reasons.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:12 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,146 posts, read 20,349,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
The company is obligated to give out a punishment that is in line with the severity of the offense. We don't know what the victim complained about. If an employer gives someone a warning and the problem doesn't stop, then they can fire the person. Texas is an at-will state and an employer can fire you with or without reason just as long as it's not done in retaliation for whistleblowing or discriminatory reasons.
We don't even know for a fact that the victim complained at all. I didn't read that anywhere in any news story about the case, just in the first post in this thread. We don't know if she complained or what she complained about, if she did. We don't know if there was any basis for Ashley furniture to warn the alleged murderer, or if they did give him any warnings about any harassment.

And yes, TX is an at-will state and an employer can fire you for any reason or none at all...but if an employee is fired for no reason, or without documentation of the incident, the employee can get unemployment benefits.

If you walked up to an employee and said, "I'm firing you because you've been harassing _____," the employee is going to say, "I've been doing what?" So you explain, "She says you're harassing her and we don't tolerate that kind of behavior here." He says, "I haven't been doing anything like that. We were going out and I broke things off because I wanted to date another lady that I met at a club. I think she's mad now and saying things to try to cost me my job." So now what? Do you try to decide who's telling the truth? If there are no witnesses and he denies everything, is it fair to even write him up and put it in his file?
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:38 AM
 
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True. We don't even know if she complained.

HR managers should have the education and training to investigate and deal with these kinds of situations. EEOC doesn't accept denial from the accused as an excuse to not handle harassment complaints.

Here is a nice explanation from a lawyer.

http://www.rickseymourlaw.com/employ...sibility.shtml
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Old 05-24-2011, 08:58 AM
 
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If a person is driven enough to kill someone, then some obstacles to store entrance probably wouldn't stop them in their ultimate goal. You might just alter their plans. Firing them can get you a rampage the next day or on an anniversary.

There was a case in Mississippi where an ex met up with his wife or girl friend outside her mall workplace and stabbed her repeatedly and then poured gas on her to set her on fire. Outside the store.

What happened - well, some people yelled at him, some honked their car horns. BUT - an armed citizen told him to cease or he would kill him. The miscreant is now in jail.

Dating policies won't do much to stop some with that level of homocidial drive. In our nice neighborhood, my wife called me at work to say that the street was swarming with cops. Oh, what happened - a neighboring husand decided to strangle his wife before the divorce became final.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:31 AM
 
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The victim should have filed a restraining order if she felt like she was in danger which would still mean that the manager would have to move or lose his job. Fearing a person is no reason to keep them on the job. I think it's more dangerous to have a person attack someone in an enclosed building where there could be customers and other employees.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:06 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,117,123 times
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A restraining order won't stop a bullet, nor will a locked glass door stop someone from entering the building.

If he was so intent on killing her, about the only thing that might have saved her was being armed herself.

Unless Ashley Furniture has some regulation against employees carrying at the workplace, it would have given her the best chance of surviving.

But it's all water under the bridge now...

May she rest in peace, and her killer be brought to justice.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: san antonio texas
1,805 posts, read 2,185,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
We don't have the full story, but I will say in any situation, the employer has an obligation to deal with harassment complaints. An employer should not tolerate an employee (especially a manager) harassing any other employee. If the allegations are true, he should have been fired. If the victim really felt like she was in danger, she could have tried to get a restraining order and escalated her complaint to human resource at the corporate level.

Where I work, when an employee complains about an estranged spouse or significant other that doesn't even work for the company, that person is banned from the property.
have to agree with this 100%

after the initial report of harassment, one of the two should have been relocated to another store or outright fired. im not taking sides, but ashleys could have done a lot more than just document the harassment,
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:55 AM
 
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There is strong evidence that you are in as much or more danger after filing the restraining order. It does help with subsequent legal proceedings so they should be filed but as far as stopping injuring - doesn't seem to do much good.

Terrible consequence of men viewing women as property and image. They can't let go if the relationship goes south. Might be biological driven and some men can't overcome that biology with cognitive processes.

It is also a cornerstone of some religiousand cultural views which reinforce the biological patterns. Socio-cultural views interact to magnify that motivation.

So you broke up, get over it. Some guys can't see that. Use a lawyer to protect your property. No one thinks you are a tough guy if you act violently after getting dumping. In fact, you are more of a wuss.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:11 AM
 
Location: san antonio texas
1,805 posts, read 2,185,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
Just what exactly do you expect them to do?
not hire a felon and possibly avert the tragedy that happened?
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: san antonio texas
1,805 posts, read 2,185,486 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
We don't even know for a fact that the victim complained at all. I didn't read that anywhere in any news story about the case, just in the first post in this thread. We don't know if she complained or what she complained about, if she did. We don't know if there was any basis for Ashley furniture to warn the alleged murderer, or if they did give him any warnings about any harassment.

And yes, TX is an at-will state and an employer can fire you for any reason or none at all...but if an employee is fired for no reason, or without documentation of the incident, the employee can get unemployment benefits.

If you walked up to an employee and said, "I'm firing you because you've been harassing _____," the employee is going to say, "I've been doing what?" So you explain, "She says you're harassing her and we don't tolerate that kind of behavior here." He says, "I haven't been doing anything like that. We were going out and I broke things off because I wanted to date another lady that I met at a club. I think she's mad now and saying things to try to cost me my job." So now what? Do you try to decide who's telling the truth? If there are no witnesses and he denies everything, is it fair to even write him up and put it in his file?
actually, no they cant.

/ask me how i know
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