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Old 05-28-2011, 11:55 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,160,237 times
Reputation: 400

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
When someone targets a cop, they're actually targeting the representative symbol of an orderly society. You might not view it that way, but a shrink will tell you that's the way it works. It indicates that the perp will respect NO life - in fact, the more representative of societal norms and "authority" they are, the more they will be in danger from such a person. That means folks such as law makers, city/county leaders, etc. If you don't think that has a destabilizing effect on a community, then you need to study human behaviour more closely.


@ Texasredneck

First off my statement was made in response to other statements made in this thread and similar sentiment in other threads regarding the police. My statements weren't meant for you, if they were I'd specifically type your name. Now if you fall under the umbrella of those who regard killing a police officer as holding more weight than the murder of a regular civilian, then yes I am addressing the larger "you".

Regarding the quote up there...

Some cops get killed because they are jerks on/off duty, they are adulterers, they are downright immoral and someone has a score to settle. Some cops get killed because they are good cops doing their jobs and pissed off the wrong person, mistaken identity, etc. Very similar to reasons regular folk get killed. A murder of a police officer doesn't have to be a strike out to disrupt "orderly society" it's merely just your run of the mill murder. It's speculation at this point either way why this officer got killed. I just don't see how you quickly jump to a "perp" angered by law & order, and getting back at the system by lashing out and killing this cop. Thus being a larger threat to society on a whole.

I get what you are getting at, I just don't believe it's as cut & dry as you try to make it. Random killing of a cop...terrible. Random killing of a civilian... equally terrible. Any attempt to kill ANY person for reasons less than self defense has destabilizing repercussions on society.

If by your theory a perp kills a cop it destabilizes society, what does it say about cops who kill civilians without provocation?...IMO that's a much more powerful commentary on the destabilization of social order.

 
Old 05-29-2011, 02:46 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 5,897,197 times
Reputation: 1788
You are right, it is not that cut and dry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
When someone targets a cop, they're actually targeting the representative symbol of an orderly society.
Sort of like last year when a cop killed a student, they're actually targeting the representative symbol of the future of society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadlockd View Post
Condolences to his family.

----------------------------------------

When someone kills a LEO, the person immediately a "sick bastard" and should "burn in hell" but when an on duty LEO unlawfully kills a person the LEO is suspended (with pay), everyone wants to dismiss their behavior as a result of working such a stressful job, etc. ?

Horrible inequity in justice.

When anyone kills a person they are a serious threat to the general public, how does killing a LEO make them even more dangerous? LEO's are "above" being killed over John Q Public or something?
Good call.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 02:51 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 88,978,619 times
Reputation: 29440
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
And I think that Joe Blow, ambushed while sitting at a red light, deserves to have every cop swiftly demanding justice, too. I understand the LE thing, but all senseless murders need to be dealt with just as quickly and just as harshly.
That would be great -- in a world of unlmited resources that can be called upon whenever and wherever they are needed. But that's not the world we live in. We live in a world of limited resources and we have to allocate them as best we can. The murder of "Joe Blow" is tragic. The deliberate, targeted murder of a cop is is an attack not just on an individual but on the already thin glue that holds civilized society together. That's why the latter attack merits a greater allocation of resources than the former. I assure you, you do not want to live in a society where law enforcement is more scared of confronting the bad guys than the other way around.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: san antonio texas
1,805 posts, read 2,182,803 times
Reputation: 623
b b b but.... the east side is safe and has tons of nice areas in it!!!!!

/snort
 
Old 05-29-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Location: san antonio texas
1,805 posts, read 2,182,803 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTx View Post
I am with sapphire on this one.

Anyone (LEO or not) that is a victim of this terrible crime deserves the same amount of time and effort to capture the idiots.

It isn't the old west anymore. Crooks didn't even have semi-automatic guns then. Why does anyone need a semi-automatic weapon? The fact they exist just gives others a reason to buy them to protect themselves from wrong people owning the same type of weapon.

Bottom line: this horrible murder was committed using semi-automatic weapons. The poor guy might have had a chance to react and defend himself if they were shooting with less aggressive weapons.
sorry but youre just flat wrong. they risk their lives so you can sleep comfortably at night. youre damn right they better devote more time and resources to capturing the douchebags who committed this foul act.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,101,486 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
Sort of like last year when a cop killed a student, they're actually targeting the representative symbol of the future of society.
No, this was not like the incident involving the NISD police officer and the student. In that instance, the student was involved in a fight, fled from the police officer, and allegedly lunged at him from a dark shed.

This Bexar County officer was on duty and responding to a call for help.

Stating they are the same is idiotic.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,101,486 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
That would be great -- in a world of unlmited resources that can be called upon whenever and wherever they are needed. But that's not the world we live in. We live in a world of limited resources and we have to allocate them as best we can. The murder of "Joe Blow" is tragic. The deliberate, targeted murder of a cop is is an attack not just on an individual but on the already thin glue that holds civilized society together. That's why the latter attack merits a greater allocation of resources than the former. I assure you, you do not want to live in a society where law enforcement is more scared of confronting the bad guys than the other way around.
We were briefed by SAPD Homicide during CPA, and one of the things that stood out is how they treat every case the same no matter if the victim was the pastor of a local church or a crack-addicted prostitute. Based on all the case information they shared with us, I believe it to be true.

However, the murder of a law enforcement official will and should be treated differently, and for good reason. Each officer is a representative of the officer and society they serve, and any attack is not only against the individual but his/her department and us citizens.

Most people are clueless to the dangers of police work, and as we've seen on here they greatly under-appreciate it. I am sure if they ever had the opportunity to serve alongside an officer, even for one shift, that would change. Of course, most can't be bothered, and will remain ignorant about the sacrifices and dangers these oath keepers face on a regular basis.

Again, RIP Sgt Vann.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,255 posts, read 1,753,103 times
Reputation: 1362
Do not condemn me yet. I do not think this is a random act.
I think there is more to the story than someone pulling behind a marked car and killing an officer.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,256 posts, read 8,983,551 times
Reputation: 6340
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilGar View Post
Do not condemn me yet. I do not think this is a random act.
I think there is more to the story than someone pulling behind a marked car and killing an officer.
No condemnation here...believe me, the same question is being asked in a lot of circles. Problem is, there's just no answer yet - way too early. This could be anything from an initiation, escalation by cartels - or someone seeking revenge against a department or the officer himself.

Bottom line...there's a lot to be discovered - and you can bet that they're looking at everything.
 
Old 05-29-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: South Side
3,770 posts, read 7,273,650 times
Reputation: 2852
It will be interesting to see how this tragic story unfolds.

I hope officer's loved ones will be able to find peace.
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