the great 281 debate (San Antonio, Austin, Georgetown: calculating, gated, property taxes)

[traficdogn]

Originally Posted by mastercone

By the time toll roads are in place, figure 2009 to 2012 at the earliest, you can bank on paying easily over a $1,000 a year

That as a result would kill urban sprawl and force the city into implementing a viable public transportation system.

Its a joke how everyone in San Antonio has to own car. And all we do is, keep sprawling and building more roads, so more people need cars.

[texasdreamin]

One way to cut down on the amount of traffic is if public transportation *were* available. A person should be able to hop on a bus and take it clear to Austin, via transfers. If the public transportation were available people could work in outlying areas and take the transportation in to the city, where their jobs are. It would eliminate so much traffic congestion. There would be no need for toll roads.

Another way to help with gridlocked traffic is through the use of roadway sensors. I read a post where someone was complianing how long the lights are. If there were roadway sensors, the lights would respond to the traffic, thus keeping it flowing.

[mastercone]

QUOTE by OLDMAN-- Wow, mastercone, your post was alot longer than mine and had links and stuff, so I guess you "won" the argument.

No one "won" anything. Those links were provided for both you and others for the purpose of becoming more familiar with the subject so that we all might be well informed enough to debate on a level playing field. In fact, you have been the LONE critic of my posts since I joined this thread. That leaves you well in the minority on this issue as I don't see any others screaming and demanding for the arcane joy of paying for toll roads to the tune of thousands each year.

I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you on this, lest I construct any more "paragraphs" (that was actually a sentence, btw, not a paragraph) that don't meet with your approval.

It was a paragraph before I broke it up into several pieces for the purpose of my "line-by-line" response. Instead of venting your ire against me, you could have taken any one of links I provided and used it to point out faults. You didn't. If you could channel as much energy debating the subject as you do trying to shoot the messenger, your input would be surprisingly more viable that what has been observed thus far.

Also, I don't work for TxDOT, I'm just another guy who lives in SA. Perhaps you've not considered the possibility that there are actual citizens in this city that DON'T think the way you do?? Hmm, what a concept. . .

The TxDoT comment was a pun. I commented in my last response that you don't agree with me and probably any other citizen who is against toll roads. I also explained to you that the meticulous detail and links were offered to fully inform EVERYONE following this thread, publicly or privately, of ALL of the details surrounding this issue, both PRO and CON.

It would have been nice, albeit impossible, for you to produce links that could have supported your views. I haven't looked, but you might try searching for a "PRO" toll road website that could give us the other side of the story. The only ones you will find are run by various governments touting the great revenues that are produced. By the way, a lingering question remains.....if you are so ardently supportive of toll roads, would you also support a state income tax for this state?

[mastercone]

Why do taxpayers kick themselves when the government shortchanges and ultimately fails them? Why cant' taxpayers just fire someone when it isn't being done right? Instead, everyone knows the transportation situation has become fouled but they are willing to let the same incompetents that created the problem forced their idea of a fix down the throats of the citizen. Until you demand better government, this is NEVER going away. It's really a shame.

Originally Posted by joe123456

Fixing bridges, maintaining highways, and expanding new roads would not be an issue in Texas and many other parts of the country if politicians didn't use the gas tax for other things. In good years they just took revenue from gas taxes and spent it on other things.

This is no different than what they have done to social security. Unless you the people demand that they legislate restrictions on your governments ability to easily move money around, then we will continue to see bad roads, and social security go down the drain.

But since that isn't going to happen soon...easy fix...get rid of the gas tax and convert all roads to toll roads. Vehicles would carry an odometer that could be read by the state. The more you drive on the road, the more you have to pay. People that use the road the most pay the most.

I strongly believe in if you use it you pay for it. If you don't use it, you shouldn't have to pay for it. Stop the freeloading. The government has been doing a **** poor job of managing the money we give them.

[mastercone]

The REAL reason there is so much unchecked development in San Antonio is that there are 45, that's right -- count them, 45 separate tax entities in this county alone waiting to get their hands on your EASY property tax money each year. There's a lot of room for waste, fraud, and spendthrifts. New high schools cost $70 million dollars-plus because you agree to pay for it.

If the governmental authorities within Bexar county were to promote fewer persons per square mile in development, that would mean less tax dollars per square mile for those tax hungry tax entities constantly looking for more cash. When they are through, San Antonio will look just like any other death-warmed- over large metropolitan city in America. You won't recognize it.

1. Nothing will "KILL" urban sprawl except for a financial collapse of the US economy, AND;

2. In the government's view, the "ONLY VIABLE" transportation system is ALREADY here: VIA

3. Texas is now the second largest state in the lower 48 by both population and area(size). If Bexar county could have worked with neighboring counties to spread out the sprawl over multiple counties then we would all be happier. BIG government wants as many people as they can pack into this county like fish in a sardine can.

45 Tax Hungry Entities waiting for your money:
Bexar Appraisal District

Originally Posted by traficdogn

That as a result would kill urban sprawl and force the city into implementing a viable public transportation system.

Its a joke how everyone in San Antonio has to own car. And all we do is, keep sprawling and building more roads, so more people need cars.

[mastercone]

VIA ALREADY GETS 1 cent OF THE 8.125% THAT YOU PAY IN SALES TAX IN MOST AREAS OF BEXAR COUNTY. I can foresee them asking for another 1 cent to explore your suggestion but the buses would compete with other traffic, tolled or not, to get you to the same destination.

Originally Posted by texasdreamin

One way to cut down on the amount of traffic is if public transportation *were* available. A person should be able to hop on a bus and take it clear to Austin, via transfers. If the public transportation were available people could work in outlying areas and take the transportation in to the city, where their jobs are. It would eliminate so much traffic congestion. There would be no need for toll roads.

Another way to help with gridlocked traffic is through the use of roadway sensors. I read a post where someone was complianing how long the lights are. If there were roadway sensors, the lights would respond to the traffic, thus keeping it flowing.

[ChrisSA_wxatUIW]

The 281/410 interchange started construction in late 2005/ early 2006 and now look- it's almost done!!! The 281 tollway could have been done or almost done by now if it weren't for all these hold ups! What, does Terri Hall think that TxDOT is just going to eventually give up and be like "oh ok just kidding, we'll build it toll free"... NO! They're either going to build the toll road, or not build anything while traffic congestion continues to get worse.

I'm for toll roads, for the same reasons dendox stated. I don't see the problem with paying a little extra change for a high class, state of the art, freeway system. If tolling is how we'll get the job done, then lets just get the job done already.

[Insomniac]

The Web (410/281) is a monster!

[imaterry78259]

I agree with you, maybe the ISD can consolidated to create a larger buying power unit which equal lower taxes. We need a train system in SA from 281 and Hwy 46 to I37 and Military Drive

[jerryg]

I don't get how there are folks that think expanding a bus system is going to improve traffic - here's a hint - it won't. Not without an extensive rail system that it also feeds into. Even then, it's not going to make much of a difference.

In my -experience- (note the caveat, please!), most of the folks that I've seen ride a bus either do so because they have no choice, or are taking it to a rail station from a park and ride as part of their commute. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that prefer buses as a primary form of transportation that CAN afford a car, but they seem to be more the exception than the rule (again, in my experience from living in an east coast metro area]) I'm -very- open to the idea that an extensive bus system could work well in San Antonio, and I'd even experiment with it, but if my commute ends up longer because of it, I'll go back to driving.
If it's not going to save time, folks aren't going to use it - Express routes from park and rides to specific, high-employment areas and even to support 'targeted' employers would certainly help with that, though (like I said - I'm open to a bus system that doesn't suck, but if every route, or the majority of routes, are local/semi-local, than it's not going to do much to deal with the real problem - high traffic congestion during morning and evening rush).

I'll reiterate - I'm a big BIG fan of rail, not so much buses. The problem is that a proper rail system is expensive as hell, which is why buses end up being the solution of choice - and it really isn't much of one, sadly.