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Old 05-31-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,138 posts, read 20,301,881 times
Reputation: 26372

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Quote:
Originally Posted by britishbird View Post
They should be buckling up when they first get into the car.
Not practical when you're in and out of the vehicle 80-90 times a day.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,101,486 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
You need to be real careful with this. If an officer observes you violate a law, or has probable cause of a crime, you are UNDER ARREST. It is custodial detention. You must identify yourself. If you were driving, you must present a drivers license.

If you are free to leave, you do not have to indentify yourself (non custodial detention) such as an officer randomly walking up to you and asking for an ID. Something the Police may do, but without a legal reason to detain you where you are not free to leave, you may simply leave.

When you get a ticket for no seat belt(or whatever), you have been arrested. You just bonded out on the side of the road by signing(or being let go). An Officer can take you to jail for any violation of the law in the State of Texas, (except speeding and open container...I dont know what those are exceptions by statute)

Some of the lines do get a bit complicated and blurred. but again, as a primer, Identifying yourself pretty much depends on if you are free to leave or not. (custodial vs. non custodial) The "reasonable man" standard (what the courts often use as a test) often applies here.
Agreed, but I did state...

Quote:
Note however that Texas law does not require a detainee to identify himself unless he has been lawfully arrested, but does make it a crime to provide a false name (Texas Penal Code §38.02). For more info on this, Google Brown v. Texas, 443 U. S. 47 (1979).
Texas does not have a “stop and identify” law that explicitly requires a person detained under the conditions of Terry Stop to identify himself to police, or in some cases, provide additional information. The state only requires a detainee to identify himself if he has been lawfully arrested.

Cheers! M2
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:11 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,210,963 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
Agreed, but I did state...



Texas does not have a “stop and identify” law that explicitly requires a person detained under the conditions of Terry Stop to identify himself to police, or in some cases, provide additional information. The state only requires a detainee to identify himself if he has been lawfully arrested.

Cheers! M2
If an Officer's traffic stop falls under Terry, that Officer can still demand your License (and insurance, as well as run your through TCIC/NCIC) Most traffic stops fall under Terry.

For an example of reasonable suspicion (lower than probable cause) which is the standard to make a stop, an Officer observes you weaving within your lane. The Officer has not observed you break any law but has reasonable suspicion to investigate and ID you. An example of probable cause for a stop would be, if the Officer observed you break (any) law.

For a person walking down the street, you are right, if the stop is a Terry stop, an Officer can ask for ID, but can not demand it.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,101,486 times
Reputation: 4435
Yeah, there's a fine line but I have always been of the mindset that since I am not doing anything wrong, there's no reason not to cooperate.

Heck, even when I am doing something wrong, it's the best tactic to take!

Cheers! M2
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:35 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,210,963 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
Yeah, there's a fine line but I have always been of the mindset that since I am not doing anything wrong, there's no reason not to cooperate.

Heck, even when I am doing something wrong, it's the best tactic to take!

Cheers! M2
The general public is often misinformed or flat out wrong, look at the OP in this thread. While we are all responsible for what we should know, it is understandable. I dont know anything about ball room dancing and I would not know what is true or not if people started telling me about ball room dancing.

for a slight tangent, I could go on and on about so many things, or just toss out a truth that a large number of people who have police contact are just sure the police are doing something wrong, and yet in well over 99% of cases they are not.

To toss out a simple and probably the most often used example, The reading of rights. In this case and many others, TV and Movies have just warped peoples idea of how it all works. People are arrested all the time and never read their rights. So many of them are convinced the Police have messed up. They are compusive about it. (through actions and words)...and they are flat out wrong.

The Police dont have to read people their rights until a custodial interrogation takes place. If I saw you do something, I may very well not question you, I dont need to, I am a witness. If I arrest you on a warrant, I dont read you your rights. I am not questioning you, I am just executing a court order. There are other examples, but my point is made.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:10 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,210,963 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
Not practical when you're in and out of the vehicle 80-90 times a day.
Sure it is. You get in the car, you buckle up. You get out, you unbuckle. 1 time or 100 times. Pretty straight forward. What you are really saying is it is not convenient. That I agree with. However it doesnt exempt you from the law, nor will an inconvenience keep you from harm. The laws of physics apply no matter how much of a pain something is.

I get in and out of the car all day long as well...that is pretty much my job. Sometimes I have to bail to save a life, including my own. I still put on that seat belt each time.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:25 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
5,159 posts, read 9,667,663 times
Reputation: 7949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
Not practical when you're in and out of the vehicle 80-90 times a day.


it takes 3 seconds to put on a seat belt.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Texas
475 posts, read 968,882 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
Not practical when you're in and out of the vehicle 80-90 times a day.
If you should be in a car accident, it would be practical to be wearing your seat belt... particularly since it could save your life.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:53 PM
 
Location: san antonio
332 posts, read 461,434 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog_Mom View Post
Not practical when you're in and out of the vehicle 80-90 times a day.
i dont see how that is relevant when the law states you must be buckled up.

do you have some insight that people arent aware of?
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:55 PM
 
Location: san antonio
332 posts, read 461,434 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
The general public is often misinformed or flat out wrong, look at the OP in this thread. While we are all responsible for what we should know, it is understandable. I dont know anything about ball room dancing and I would not know what is true or not if people started telling me about ball room dancing.

for a slight tangent, I could go on and on about so many things, or just toss out a truth that a large number of people who have police contact are just sure the police are doing something wrong, and yet in well over 99% of cases they are not.

To toss out a simple and probably the most often used example, The reading of rights. In this case and many others, TV and Movies have just warped peoples idea of how it all works. People are arrested all the time and never read their rights. So many of them are convinced the Police have messed up. They are compusive about it. (through actions and words)...and they are flat out wrong.

The Police dont have to read people their rights until a custodial interrogation takes place. If I saw you do something, I may very well not question you, I dont need to, I am a witness. If I arrest you on a warrant, I dont read you your rights. I am not questioning you, I am just executing a court order. There are other examples, but my point is made.
can you please tell your brethren to stop walking on the side of the road and creating a traffic mess? the lady cop i saw yesterday was causing traffic to back up, all in the name of 'safety'... er i mean lining the police department's pocket.

before you ask, i did call the cops and report her and the traffic nightmare she was causing 'all in the name of safety'
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