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Old 11-08-2009, 11:20 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
88 posts, read 95,057 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus01 View Post
Here we go again...another misstatement by the uninformed. WC currently has an active Cellular On Patrol team operating under the auspices of BCSO. If you'll read the VWOA web site there's a point of contact where you can obtain additional information if you feel inclined to participate. This team is comprised of "volunteers" right here in WC. Thats right! Some of your neighbors have taken it upon themselves to take the training given by BCSO after submitting to a criminal background check and whatever else they checkout...and they actively patrol WC. Isn't that amazing! In fact...Saturday night between 1130 - 0430hrs they identified, documented and reported 6 occupied suspicious vehicles to BCSO, advised one juvenile <18y/o that they were in violation of the Bexar County curfew ordinance, contacted BCSO and NISD of an occupied suspicious vehicle at Galm Elementary, and COP's interest in 3 additional vehicles resulted in them leaving WC in a very big hurry when they were spotlighted by the COP unit. Usually vehicles that run from a spotlight don't want their license plates recorded and probably don't belong in WC. Oh!... I almost forgot the call initiated to BCSO about the residence who's fire alarm was going off at 0130. At the request of BCSO dispatch COP stood by the residence to render assistance upon arrival of the responding unit. Fortunately no one was home and it appeared to be a false alarm.

Now you can consider yourself accurately informed. These neighbors aren't police officers and don't make arrests and do not "confront" individuals as a police officer would.They observe and report like they are trained to do by BCSO. The volunteer services provided by these individuals doesn't cost the residents of WC one penny and doesn't fall in the realm of the BOD/HOA. They are eyes & ears and an extension of the BCSO right here in WC...and some goofs out there want to spend our $$ that would amount to a great deal of money for a security contract? Wake up!
I see you are quite passionate about the COP program and that's great. But the bottom line is this is a volunteer corp. That means they can choose to patrol the neighborhood or not. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I keep hearing this group does not have enough volunteers and every time I turn around they are trying to recruit more folks into their group. It's not my job to patrol the subdivision looking for trouble. How dare you make me feel obligated to do so. There are just some jobs that are worth paying for and this is one of them. My thought is this...I would rather put this job in the hands of a professional group who HAS to show up for work because they have a contract to do so rather than chooses if they feel like volunteering or not.
By the way...you need to take that tone of yours down a couple of notches, you are way out of line. It's obvious we disagree on this subject...and that's fine. But there is no reason to be rude, disrespectful or condescending. As I have stated before, I admire the work of the COP volunteers and appreciate their help. I just think its too big of a job for volunteers and I am not comfortable putting their personal safety at risk.

 
Old 11-09-2009, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Kallison Ranch, San Antonio,TX.
1,643 posts, read 2,013,674 times
Reputation: 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoegal39 View Post
I see you are quite passionate about the COP program and that's great. But the bottom line is this is a volunteer corp. That means they can choose to patrol the neighborhood or not. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I keep hearing this group does not have enough volunteers and every time I turn around they are trying to recruit more folks into their group. It's not my job to patrol the subdivision looking for trouble. How dare you make me feel obligated to do so. There are just some jobs that are worth paying for and this is one of them. My thought is this...I would rather put this job in the hands of a professional group who HAS to show up for work because they have a contract to do so rather than chooses if they feel like volunteering or not.
By the way...you need to take that tone of yours down a couple of notches, you are way out of line. It's obvious we disagree on this subject...and that's fine. But there is no reason to be rude, disrespectful or condescending. As I have stated before, I admire the work of the COP volunteers and appreciate their help. I just think its too big of a job for volunteers and I am not comfortable putting their personal safety at risk.
Thanks Again and VERY Well Stated.

Since I "hunt and peck" when I type you are saving my fingertips.

Last edited by wellguy; 11-09-2009 at 04:58 AM..
 
Old 11-09-2009, 05:44 AM
 
172 posts, read 382,360 times
Reputation: 65
I heard gunshots late Fri. night.....found out there was gang grafitti/vandalism at Galm going on at that time, per BCSO. Anyone else know anything about this???!!!
I am in favor of paid security to patrol as well as the COPS program. I plan on addressing this at our next meeting!!
 
Old 11-09-2009, 05:55 AM
 
872 posts, read 1,010,429 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus01 View Post
Here we go again...another misstatement by the uninformed. WC currently has an active Cellular On Patrol team operating under the auspices of BCSO. If you'll read the VWOA web site there's a point of contact where you can obtain additional information if you feel inclined to participate. This team is comprised of "volunteers" right here in WC. Thats right! Some of your neighbors have taken it upon themselves to take the training given by BCSO after submitting to a criminal background check and whatever else they checkout...and they actively patrol WC. Isn't that amazing! In fact...Saturday night between 1130 - 0430hrs they identified, documented and reported 6 occupied suspicious vehicles to BCSO, advised one juvenile <18y/o that they were in violation of the Bexar County curfew ordinance, contacted BCSO and NISD of an occupied suspicious vehicle at Galm Elementary, and COP's interest in 3 additional vehicles resulted in them leaving WC in a very big hurry when they were spotlighted by the COP unit. Usually vehicles that run from a spotlight don't want their license plates recorded and probably don't belong in WC. Oh!... I almost forgot the call initiated to BCSO about the residence who's fire alarm was going off at 0130. At the request of BCSO dispatch COP stood by the residence to render assistance upon arrival of the responding unit. Fortunately no one was home and it appeared to be a false alarm.

Now you can consider yourself accurately informed. These neighbors aren't police officers and don't make arrests and do not "confront" individuals as a police officer would.They observe and report like they are trained to do by BCSO. The volunteer services provided by these individuals doesn't cost the residents of WC one penny and doesn't fall in the realm of the BOD/HOA. They are eyes & ears and an extension of the BCSO right here in WC...and some goofs out there want to spend our $$ that would amount to a great deal of money for a security contract?
Based on info received by one of our team members.... from an SAPD officer that lives in the vicinity of the Vistas... has reason to believe that our taggers do reside somewhere around there. Acccording to the officer they were going to pick up their children at the school and noticed grafitti that hadn't been there on their way back home. It was between 2:30 and 3pm. He believes its middle schoolers.
Great post! People that want to patrol are doing it instead of someone just getting paid a few bucks an hour and who may not have any passion whatsoever about their job. I don' understand why people think that paying for something makes it better. COPS has been around for a while but the program seems to be growing. I think this is a great avenue for ramping up some security without continuing to grow the beast that is the HOA budget.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 08:11 AM
 
186 posts, read 194,922 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoegal39 View Post
I see you are quite passionate about the COP program and that's great. But the bottom line is this is a volunteer corp. That means they can choose to patrol the neighborhood or not. I'm not comfortable with the fact that I keep hearing this group does not have enough volunteers and every time I turn around they are trying to recruit more folks into their group. It's not my job to patrol the subdivision looking for trouble. How dare you make me feel obligated to do so. There are just some jobs that are worth paying for and this is one of them. My thought is this...I would rather put this job in the hands of a professional group who HAS to show up for work because they have a contract to do so rather than chooses if they feel like volunteering or not.
By the way...you need to take that tone of yours down a couple of notches, you are way out of line. It's obvious we disagree on this subject...and that's fine. But there is no reason to be rude, disrespectful or condescending. As I have stated before, I admire the work of the COP volunteers and appreciate their help. I just think its too big of a job for volunteers and I am not comfortable putting their personal safety at risk.
All volunteer groups state that they are in need of additional help...the Red Cross, FEMA, Animal Care Services, hospitals etc. Apparently COP is no different. Several points with regard to what you've written...COP is a citizens "volunteer" group not a Corps...being a volunteer means that if one wishes to participate they are donating their time to the community, that's what defines the term "volunteer"...to allude that the COP patrols looking for trouble is blatantly incorrect...their prime directive is to call in observed suspicious or unsafe activity...any personal act exceeding those guidelines will result in the member being removed from COP...COP participants are encouraged to be crime prevention ambassadors by educating the public on the need for everyone to practice sound prevention techniques regarding their personal property and physical safety...you are correct by stating its not your job to patrol the community, I also understand that there are individuals whose sense of community are very different from those who feel the calling to volunteer...its a personal choice and thats what makes this country great..freedom to choose. Some community members don't subscribe to the social welfare concept...and I'm not willing to support the concept by asking the HOA to contract a rent-a-cop organization to patrol this community and provide what would amount to imparting a false sense of security throughout this community. BCSO doesn't have the manpower to protect us...what makes you think Paul Blart the mall cop can? As a community we have the means to look after ourselves...we only need to organize and get stronger, all it takes is a little commitment on everyone's part...more participants means more citizens watching the community...WC has approx 3200 homes and if 10% of that figure were to get involved that kind of involvement would far exceed the number of "professional" security people a private company would be capable of providing...all COP wants right now is a cadre of 25-30 commited people, not much to ask from 3200 HOA members, don't you find it ironic that out of 3200 households 30-40 people won't volunteer? Its just that many individuals don't share the same sense of community as others and thats okay..there are a few who will continue to actively watch their community for them. It isn't too big a job for COP with the right numbers, I understand they are almost there...you really shouldn't feel uncomfortable about COP putting their personal safety at risk because they are volunteers with a sense of commitment to the community. In all of my conversations with the participants of this organization not one individual has ever mentioned being uncomfortable or at risk.. their choice is to participate. They choose to accept what little risk that might exist to serve WC.

Lastly, I have no intention of ratcheting down my delivery on the subject...as and educator I use the delivery necessary to draw attention to the debate without losing sight of reason and getting hysterical. Its obvious that the post hit a nerve with you as yours did with me. I chose to inject some points of enlightenment to counter a statement made by you that was misleading. On the contrary I didn't find it disrespectful, rude or condescending. I'm sorry that you feel that way, it was in no way a personal attack directed at you...if you chose to take it personal thats your choice. We all have our demons to contend with. If one can't handle direct communication and differing opinion then maybe one shouldn't inject themself into the fray. These are my opinions and I choose to debate the issues.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Villages of Westcreek
41 posts, read 33,415 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerberus01 View Post
All volunteer groups state that they are in need of additional help...the Red Cross, FEMA, Animal Care Services, hospitals etc. Apparently COP is no different. Several points with regard to what you've written...COP is a citizens "volunteer" group not a Corps...being a volunteer means that if one wishes to participate they are donating their time to the community, that's what defines the term "volunteer"...to allude that the COP patrols looking for trouble is blatantly incorrect...their prime directive is to call in observed suspicious or unsafe activity...any personal act exceeding those guidelines will result in the member being removed from COP...COP participants are encouraged to be crime prevention ambassadors by educating the public on the need for everyone to practice sound prevention techniques regarding their personal property and physical safety...you are correct by stating its not your job to patrol the community, I also understand that there are individuals whose sense of community are very different from those who feel the calling to volunteer...its a personal choice and thats what makes this country great..freedom to choose. Some community members don't subscribe to the social welfare concept...and I'm not willing to support the concept by asking the HOA to contract a rent-a-cop organization to patrol this community and provide what would amount to imparting a false sense of security throughout this community. BCSO doesn't have the manpower to protect us...what makes you think Paul Blart the mall cop can? As a community we have the means to look after ourselves...we only need to organize and get stronger, all it takes is a little commitment on everyone's part...more participants means more citizens watching the community...WC has approx 3200 homes and if 10% of that figure were to get involved that kind of involvement would far exceed the number of "professional" security people a private company would be capable of providing...all COP wants right now is a cadre of 25-30 commited people, not much to ask from 3200 HOA members, don't you find it ironic that out of 3200 households 30-40 people won't volunteer? Its just that many individuals don't share the same sense of community as others and thats okay..there are a few who will continue to actively watch their community for them. It isn't too big a job for COP with the right numbers, I understand they are almost there...you really shouldn't feel uncomfortable about COP putting their personal safety at risk because they are volunteers with a sense of commitment to the community. In all of my conversations with the participants of this organization not one individual has ever mentioned being uncomfortable or at risk.. their choice is to participate. They choose to accept what little risk that might exist to serve WC.

Lastly, I have no intention of ratcheting down my delivery on the subject...as and educator I use the delivery necessary to draw attention to the debate without losing sight of reason and getting hysterical. Its obvious that the post hit a nerve with you as yours did with me. I chose to inject some points of enlightenment to counter a statement made by you that was misleading. On the contrary I didn't find it disrespectful, rude or condescending. I'm sorry that you feel that way, it was in no way a personal attack directed at you...if you chose to take it personal thats your choice. We all have our demons to contend with. If one can't handle direct communication and differing opinion then maybe one shouldn't inject themself into the fray. These are my opinions and I choose to debate the issues.
I hear what you are saying. I too think it is expensive to hire out security and would probably instill a false sence of security. I the end we would have wasted a whole lot of $$ and had little to show for it. I do not, however, think the COP program is the panecea for WC. It might a part of the overall solution, but it is NOT THE solution.

As for the participation in this program, I can tell you that part of the probelm with getting people to voluteer their time and energy is the lack of oganization. I know that myself and several other went to one of the training classes several months back only to find that the class had been moved without infoming the office (at least that is what we were told by the office). So, I am not sure if it is disorganized at BCSO and/or at the HOA, but that might be contributing to the lack of community support.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 09:48 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
88 posts, read 95,057 times
Reputation: 74
Cerberus01: Here are some points I would like to make to your rather lengthy post.

1. When I say "looking for trouble" what I mean is scouting for undesirable elements, situations, etc. If the COP is not out looking for trouble, then what are they doing cruising?

2. When I first moved here, my village was not completely built out. We had a security guard, through a private agency, provided by the builder. It was great! All of my neighbors will agree, he did an outstanding job, not only taking care of the building materials, but taking care of our homes as well. In fact, many of us wish the security company was still around. Maybe because we had such a positive experience everyone I've talked to is ready to head in this direction.

3. I understand that you are TOTALLY against a paid professional security company coming in to our neighborhood and want to utilize the COP volunteer corps only (and yes...it is a corps...the definition is "a body of persons acting together or associated under common direction) and it's okay for you to feel that way. However, you admit that it is understaffed and that there is difficulty in getting folks to volunteer. I agree...it is way understaffed...so much so that I have NEVER seen them patrol my area. I've asked my neighbors and they have not seen anyone patrolling either. We are an active street. Many of us sit outside until well after midnight on many nights.

So with that, we have A. an understaffed COP program B. Trouble getting volunteers to commit which equals to vandalism still occurring. All signs point to an ineffective system. So when something isn't working...we move on to the next step, right? That next step would be a professional security company to work in tandem with the COP program.

4.You have referred to the professional security companies as "rent-a-cops" and infer that they would provide substandard service. You state that BCSO does not have the power to protect us and ask if I think that Paul Bart the mall cop can? My answer is sure (maybe not Paul Bart himself)...I would have faith in a private company because at least they will show up every now and again. One other thing, your disdain for professional security companies puzzles me. Is it really just the money that's bothering you?

5. I have absolutely no trouble with opposing views. I've stated before that it's obvious that we disagree on this subject and I'm okay with that. I'm not the one who went into a tirade because someone thought differently. Your delivery is less than appealing...there are better ways of getting your point across without disparaging someone by calling them "goofs" or "uninformed" or instructing them to "wake up". As an educator, I would hope you would have a better way of enlightening minds.

And finally, I stand by my opinion...I think that we should entertain the idea of hiring a security company at least until our COP program is running as it should. Again, I thank the COP members for their time and commitment to Westcreek. I applaud them for attempting to make a difference. I appreciate their sacrifices and wish them well in their travels.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 09:51 PM
 
186 posts, read 194,922 times
Reputation: 156
[quote=WC2006;11556506]I hear what you are saying. I too think it is expensive to hire out security and would probably instill a false sence of security. I the end we would have wasted a whole lot of $$ and had little to show for it. I do not, however, think the COP program is the panecea for WC. It might a part of the overall solution, but it is NOT THE solution.

As for the participation in this program, I can tell you that part of the probelm with getting people to voluteer their time and energy is the lack of oganization. I know that myself and several other went to one of the training classes several months back only to find that the class had been moved without infoming the office (at least that is what we were told by the office). So, I am not sure if it is disorganized at BCSO and/or at the HOA, but that might be contributing to the lack of community support.[/quote

You are correct in your statement that COP is only part of a potential solution. To be quite honest there isn't a solution. Tagging and other forms of vandalism are a part of life in just about any community except the grounds of the Whitehouse and possibly Area 51, White Sands, NM and Dugway Proving Ground to name a few. Even Washington D.C has problems and WC's problems as few as they might be pale in comparison to what goes on in SA.
The SNAFU with the training session you refer to was all BCSO. They need to organize in the worst way. COP is not their primary job which results in it being put on the back burner everytime real police work comes up. The BCSO does run these officers ragged most of the time, and the COP program county wide takes the hit. WC isn't the only community feeling the effects of their lack of organization. The program is at the mercy of their work schedules and unfortunately their availabilty to conduct training sessions. This has been pointed out to the officers coordinating this program and I understand that several suggestions have been put forth to BCSO to bring a knowledgeable volunteer onboard to help get them get organized...no joy. That won't keep COP from chipping away at the wall. On another note...the BOD/HOA has no part in COP and to think otherwise is absolutely incorrect. I understand that COP is going to continue to organize inspite of the obstacles, its just going to take time and a great deal of patience.
 
Old 11-10-2009, 07:39 AM
 
872 posts, read 1,010,429 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoegal39 View Post
2. When I first moved here, my village was not completely built out. We had a security guard, through a private agency, provided by the builder. It was great! All of my neighbors will agree, he did an outstanding job, not only taking care of the building materials, but taking care of our homes as well. In fact, many of us wish the security company was still around. Maybe because we had such a positive experience everyone I've talked to is ready to head in this direction.
Having a security guard in EACH village would be more effective but imagine how expensive that would be with the number of villages we have in WC. Of course it would be way too expensive. If there was only one or two patrolling all of WC there would be very little effectiveness hence my point about cost/benefit.

Does YOUR village have any volunteers in the COPS program?
 
Old 11-10-2009, 08:21 AM
Status: "Moderators. Just Moderators." (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,825 posts, read 12,025,536 times
Reputation: 4845
whatever happened to Neighborhood Watch programs?
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