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Old 06-17-2012, 11:45 AM
 
69 posts, read 114,838 times
Reputation: 73

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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
And the bit about dogs being "territorial?!?" Seriously? Go back and read some of the attacks that occurred last year, very few were on the property where the dog was kept. The vast majority had to do with dogs getting on the loose and attacking people on their property!
Nope, you're wrong.

Dogs are terroritorial. Their definition of that may, or may not, coincide with yours, and may, or may not, coincide with property lines, etc.

Short primer: the dog may believe its territory is anywhere it and the handler are, or may extend and surround to an item (person, critter, etc.) the dog perceives as a threat.

Also, I suggest you Google and read the legal definition of "provoked" and "unprovoked" dog attacks.

This will get you started:

The Anatomy of a Dog Attack

 
Old 06-17-2012, 12:23 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 18,688,603 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by dccvms View Post
So I'm kinda unclear.. I cant walk around with my revolver on my hip old west style??(shoot 1st ask questions later??) Wait oh yea its TX... never mind
Open carry is not allowed in Texas (with a few exceptions).

So, to make it clear for you...no, you cannot walk around with an exposed handgun.
 
Old 06-17-2012, 01:39 PM
 
930 posts, read 1,427,885 times
Reputation: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstop View Post
Nope, you're wrong.

Dogs are terroritorial. Their definition of that may, or may not, coincide with yours, and may, or may not, coincide with property lines, etc.

Short primer: the dog may believe its territory is anywhere it and the handler are, or may extend and surround to an item (person, critter, etc.) the dog perceives as a threat.

Also, I suggest you Google and read the legal definition of "provoked" and "unprovoked" dog attacks.

This will get you started:

The Anatomy of a Dog Attack
That's bs. What's your excuse for a dog that escapes its yard, runs for the first kid or human it sees and attacks it? You're telling me that dog was protecting its owner when it's owner is no where to be found? That story is using human emotions and thought to justify its position.
 
Old 06-17-2012, 01:59 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 18,688,603 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstop View Post
Nope, you're wrong.

Dogs are terroritorial. Their definition of that may, or may not, coincide with yours, and may, or may not, coincide with property lines, etc.

Short primer: the dog may believe its territory is anywhere it and the handler are, or may extend and surround to an item (person, critter, etc.) the dog perceives as a threat.

Also, I suggest you Google and read the legal definition of "provoked" and "unprovoked" dog attacks.

This will get you started:

The Anatomy of a Dog Attack
It doesn't matter; a dog attack is a dog attack regardless to whether the animal is being 'territorial' or not. Such an explanation gives no justification for the act nor does it absolve the animal's owner from liability.

And since your "source" is a dog magazine I would suspect there is a bit of bias involved.

The bottom line is that people have a right to employ lethal force to protect themselves and their animals in such a situation. That is what the Texas Penal Code allows, and I am more concerned with that than the opinion of K9 magazine...
 
Old 06-17-2012, 02:05 PM
 
1,497 posts, read 1,865,212 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
I don't understand the mindset of turning a gun into an all-purpose-tool, it isn't a Swiss Army knife.

I also own firearms, possess a CHL, but will not encourage others to go this route simply to combat loose dogs. That is overkill. For those who already own firearms feel free to use them responsibly and encourage others as you wish. The reason I won't encourage others is because if one is not already a firearm owner, is not already versed in going to the range, and have not already been impressed at what an awesome power a firearm is, then it is not the very best of ideas to tell a newbie to get a gun since they might not be as responsible or understand the significance.

For those who have not tried whistles and squirt guns, and for the rest who assume, do try them sometime in a test. We don't always need a hammer or shotgun to kill a fly. A marine air horn also works wonders. I have tried all and dogs do scatter. See a dog too close and scare em off, simple.

Also most dogs who attack will not be strays, stray dogs already know how to act around humans, it is yard dogs who get loose who will pose the most challenge, the ones who chase you to the end of their fence line barking up and down as you walk or cycle by. If those dogs get loose they have no skills being around the general public. Of course there will always be exceptions and dangerous strays but if a stray usually bites someone it is hunted down and captured or killed.

Also be very careful if using a firearm against a dog, I personally advise only those who are already experienced in firearms, who have a lot of practice, to try and fire at a dog already attacking you or yours. The chances of a novice shooting their own arm or their own dog, or worse, is high, because dog attacking do not stop and pose but wildly move around, fling, thrash, all the while whatever they are biting is doing the same. I really don't understand encouraging novices to obtain firearms when this is a strong possibility.

I suppose some firearm owners simply want to arm as many law-abiding citizens as they can as part of some ideology, others want no one to have guns, I fall in the middle, get them, practice lots, learn the dangers, precautions, and deep pocket theories before going yahoo against the poor dogs.

I am also certain there are other non-lethal tools but have not used them, those silent whistles only dogs can hear, not sure.

Anyways not really saying anyone is wrong with their preference but be certain you know your own personal limits, what you are willing to risk, and if you really want to kill a dog. The problem with some (not all) people with guns is they won't retreat. Where I will see strays and keep a far distance and walk or cycle around them or away, others will feel free to walk up to or next to them, unafraid, and if the poor dog acts like a poor dog, maybe even just interested but not going to attack, and Mr. Responsible-Yet-Unafraid-and-Eager-Firearm-Holder does get spooked or feels it a threat and just shoots. Very brave amirite?

The difference between some firearm owners and gun nuts is that the former do not want to use their firearms, last resort, while the latter want to use them any chance possible. Certainly most firearm owners exist in the middle ground and not the two extreme examples I gave but I know where I reside.

Finally, while I respect the laws that allow lethal force against dogs and coyotes, keep in mind that law was designed for farming environments. Not the most ideal law for a city but it is the law, so make of that what you will. I will leave with one example, if you see a dog chasing a child and you know it wants to attack, and by the off chance you are driving, you are free to run it over. This happened exactly like that at the Great Northwest subdivision over 10 years ago and the police commended my then co-worker for his part (and he claims his driving skills but I am not so certain he wasn't just bragging). It made an awesome report though!

WOW. Just wow.....
 
Old 06-17-2012, 02:34 PM
 
69 posts, read 114,838 times
Reputation: 73
Interesting and insightful exchange.

Maj and blizzard, there's absolutely nothing for me to gain here, so you both may crown yourself winners.

The WD at my feet also confirmed I'm wasting my time. (WD = working dog)

And just so there's no misinterpretation, I am not, nor have I ever been, an LEO.

Ion, sorry for the thread drift.
 
Old 06-17-2012, 03:55 PM
 
3,667 posts, read 5,409,812 times
Reputation: 1778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstop View Post
Interesting and insightful exchange.

Maj and blizzard, there's absolutely nothing for me to gain here, so you both may crown yourself winners.

The WD at my feet also confirmed I'm wasting my time. (WD = working dog)

And just so there's no misinterpretation, I am not, nor have I ever been, an LEO.

Ion, sorry for the thread drift.
No surprise to see you defer but rest assured that others did understand.

Dogs are territorial, although the parameters of their territory do not coincide with the limits of ours so a dog won't stop at the edge of their owner's yard since a dog might believe his territory ends somewhere two houses down and halfway across the street.

Also, yes, it is better to be proactive than reactive to avoid getting a dog riled up because of our own behaviors that could alarm them. A kid running down the street (although this is becoming a rarer site due to x box) or a car passing by is just the kind of motion that triggers a dog, the car only poses a danger for the dog, but parents should be aware of where the dogs are on their block and have their kids act accordingly if they must walk past there.

Kids also are allowed to carry rocks, sticks, squirt guns, and whistles but not firearms that I know of in this city. If they walk they won't even have to be told, they will carry those things anyways near dogs, as we did as kids facing the same hazards. The idea of shooting everything that opposes you I don't understand. Learning street smarts to avoid dangerous people and dogs is a much brighter idea and less paper work but you know others would rather conquer animals and be the hero sporting a pistol in hand a la Rick Perry (picture not related) out on a jog. Work smarter not harder...

..those most at risk for dog attacks are mail carriers and they do not carry firearms. If you want to know the wisest ways to avoid dog attacks, and to learn to read dog behavior, they, mail men, and their sources, literature and tips offered to mailmen, might offer the best opinions outside of professional dog magazines, thanks Backstop for better informing us but as you might realize some prefer the old point and shoot method, this is Texas after all ):

Last edited by Merovee; 06-17-2012 at 04:48 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2012, 07:54 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 18,688,603 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by txtea View Post
WOW. Just wow.....
You actually bothered to read all that?!?

There is so many incorrect assumptions ("some firearm owners simply want to arm as many law-abiding citizens as they can as part of some ideology," "keep in mind that law was designed for farming environments") that it is more like political rhetoric than opinion.

By the way, owning a firearm and even possessing a CHL doesn't mean someone knows what the laws are. I can tell you from firsthand experience that unfortunately a lot of Texans who have a license to conceal carry are fairly ignorant when it comes to the laws of lethal force.

Honestly, I don't care what other peoples' agendas are; all I know is that if someone's animal is coming at me in attack mode, I am going to use all means possible to stop it and it won't be using a whistle or the air horn off someone's boat!
 
Old 06-18-2012, 07:16 AM
 
153 posts, read 230,410 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
Open carry is not allowed in Texas (with a few exceptions).

So, to make it clear for you...no, you cannot walk around with an exposed handgun.
Thank You... But I was kidding
 
Old 06-18-2012, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Tejas
259 posts, read 894,736 times
Reputation: 203
If I get attacked I will defend myself first and worry about being within my rights later.

Being within your rights doesn't mean much if you are maimed or killed.

I bought the biggest MagLite flashlight I could find to walk with my dog. Hefty as a baseball bat and not quite so obvious.
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