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Old 12-06-2012, 08:28 AM
 
208 posts, read 318,140 times
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of using a pistol for home defense. Just think....your sleeping really good and hear a noise that wakes you up. Adrenaline is racing thru your body and your heart is trying to jump out of your chest. Grabbing your pistol you go to investigate. If, god forbid you have to shoot, your putting out a single piece of metal and the chances are very good that you will miss and also run the chance of hitting someone else in the house. A pistol bullet will absolutely go thru walls. Now change that scenario to grabbing a shotgun. The gun puts alot more lead down range towards the bad guy/s. No need to be accurate, just point it at the perp and let loose. As stated earlier, I use a 410 pump. It will do the job, no dubt about it and not much worry about passing thru walls and hitting anyone else. Lots of folks use a 12 gauge, not my choice because it kicks like a bull and might even kick out of someone's hands who's half asleep at 3 am. Plus it will go thru walls and Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,619 posts, read 12,930,821 times
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These threads always come up occasionally and the myths that go with them. A shotgun at room distances is going to go thru any drywall, regardless of shot size. Anything that has enough power to harm the intruder is going to go thru drywall. It's drywall, not steel. You can punch your fist thru drywall. Next myth is that you don't have to be accurate with a shotgun. At room distances it doesn't have any time for any kind of spread. Most cylinder bores will only expand to 4" in a normal large room. In a small room the shot never gets to leave the cup which occurs usually at 15 feet. This isn't like you'll be shooting the guy at 20 yards. The best home defense weapon is a double action revolver. No brains required to use it, just pull the trigger. I can assure you, unless you are WELL practiced with a firearm and have been in numerous confrontations the last thing you'll ever do is think. You'll never see the sights either, it's just a point and shoot.....hopefully. I say hopefully as far too many homeowners have been found with a semi auto in their hand dead as dead can get. They either didn't think to remove the gun from safety or in their fumbling with it, they dropped the clip instead of removing the gun from safety. A semi auto is an extremely poor choice with fail to load and fail to fire issues common with even the best firearms. Like the KISS acronym says, Keep It Simple Stupid. A 22 pistol is just as good as a 45 in most cases. Probabilities are high you won't hit the perp anyway but it makes enough noise to usually fill the underwear of most intruders. Hopefully though, you never have to find out. Shooting or killing someone has caused many "macho" men to commit suicide afterwards. It's not a fun or macho thing to kill another person and before you buy that gun, make sure you can live with killing another human. Most often it's far better to just yell that you have a gun and will use it if the perp doesn't leave.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:15 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
4,149 posts, read 9,305,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
These threads always come up occasionally and the myths that go with them. A shotgun at room distances is going to go thru any drywall, regardless of shot size. Anything that has enough power to harm the intruder is going to go thru drywall. It's drywall, not steel. You can punch your fist thru drywall. Next myth is that you don't have to be accurate with a shotgun. At room distances it doesn't have any time for any kind of spread. Most cylinder bores will only expand to 4" in a normal large room. In a small room the shot never gets to leave the cup which occurs usually at 15 feet. This isn't like you'll be shooting the guy at 20 yards. The best home defense weapon is a double action revolver. No brains required to use it, just pull the trigger. I can assure you, unless you are WELL practiced with a firearm and have been in numerous confrontations the last thing you'll ever do is think. You'll never see the sights either, it's just a point and shoot.....hopefully. I say hopefully as far too many homeowners have been found with a semi auto in their hand dead as dead can get. They either didn't think to remove the gun from safety or in their fumbling with it, they dropped the clip instead of removing the gun from safety. A semi auto is an extremely poor choice with fail to load and fail to fire issues common with even the best firearms. Like the KISS acronym says, Keep It Simple Stupid. A 22 pistol is just as good as a 45 in most cases. Probabilities are high you won't hit the perp anyway but it makes enough noise to usually fill the underwear of most intruders. Hopefully though, you never have to find out. Shooting or killing someone has caused many "macho" men to commit suicide afterwards. It's not a fun or macho thing to kill another person and before you buy that gun, make sure you can live with killing another human. Most often it's far better to just yell that you have a gun and will use it if the perp doesn't leave.
Very well written and good points. The last thing you ever want to do is kill someone. It may be necessary as a last resort. It's just MUCH easier to aim a shotgun than a pistol. Plus, the simple racking sound may be enough to scare them away.

And yes, a shotgun will go through drywall. Not sure why so many folks don't think it will.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:39 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 5,898,971 times
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I agree with the not wanting to kill anyone.

But the point is when you are in fear of your life, and while some are going to be very cavalier with that, others will insure they are looking at a stranger, not a fuzzy figure in the dark, not someone they think might be family. They will yell to someone else "call the police now" as they go confront the stranger in their home. In some cases you won't just be able to wait in a corner of your closet until they come looking for you, as a last last resort only then will you shoot, in some cases you will have a family to protect and retreating becomes less of an option.

On another note you also have to think about liability. God forbid you ever have to shoot someone but if you do it won't be for fun, it won't be to scare em, or just scratch em with a flesh wound, no it is to stop them, center mass. If they happen to die or not is not up to you or the objective, stopping them is.

But I will tell you that in some cases it is better they simply expire because if they live and are maimed and can't work, guess who gets sued? They could even take your home away from you...a 22 is risking all this when you use it for home defense, just not enough stopping power. Don't go with anything less than a 9mm for stopping power.

And in many cases a shotgun does not limit your liability like a handgun will even if a shotgun has stopping power that is easier to achieve. Target practice and being used to shooting by having to turn off the safety only after you have target acquisition will also remedy many of the points Trapper made but I do agree with much of what he wrote and a gun in the wrong or inexperienced hands is not good for anyone.

Last edited by Merovee; 12-06-2012 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:24 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,140 posts, read 20,319,586 times
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Any gun will be useless for home defense if you keep it locked up in one place and the ammo in another...you'll never have time to get it out in time. You need to be comfortable enough with your gun to keep it loaded and accessible. You also need to make a safety plan with the other members of your household. My family has safety drills where we practice what to do if someone's breaking in (it might sound funny but we practice with our airsoft pistols in hand).

We've had two incidents where someone was trying to get into our home. Both were in the middle of the night when I was home alone with the kids (hubby was working graveyard shift). The first time, I had my trusty rolling pin, the second time I had a gun. Guess which time felt better...

I would never kill someone to protect my property. I have insurance. But if someone breaks in when we're home, our lives are at risk and I would not hesitate.

Oh, about the reliability of semi-auto guns...I've put at least 1000 rounds through my Jericho 941 and have had one jam, a stovepipe, which I cleared by racking the slide, and kept on firing. One problem out of 1000 times is a pretty good track record for anything. It is good to practice tap, rack and assess though so you know how to clear a jam if it happens.

I've had people tell me before, always women, that they wanted to get a gun for home defense and didn't want to learn to shoot it. They hoped if an intruder just saw the gun, they'd be scared off. I always tell them the same thing, if you aren't going to learn to shoot it and practice with it, then get yourself a can of mace or a big mean-looking dog, a gun you can't use is only going to be a weapon against yourself.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:42 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
11,140 posts, read 20,319,586 times
Reputation: 26377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post

On another note you also have to think about liability.

But I will tell you that in some cases it is better they simply expire because if they live and are maimed and can't work, guess who gets sued? They could even take your home away from you...a 22 is risking all this when you use it for home defense, just not enough stopping power. Don't go with anything less than a 9mm for stopping power.
This is not actually the case in TX. From the TX Civil Practice and Remedies Code:

Quote:
Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
So you can't be sued for it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:45 PM
 
545 posts, read 907,319 times
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All you really need is a gun nut neighbor with a pair of binoculars. Sure, he's probably seen me naked a few dozen times but I also get a text the instant there's a weird car or person around my house.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:37 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,257 posts, read 8,988,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
For home protection you also may want to consider a shotgun. You can get a good, cheap one at Academy for less than $200. Just point and shoot. No aiming required. They're quick to load and easy to learn.
Uh, Kev....stick to Real Estate advice....

ANY gun MUST be aimed. A shotgun won't require as ACCURATE of an aim, but you WILL want to be pointing in the proper direction!

And, just as with discount realtors, you get what you pay for with any gun. The sub-$200 shotguns I've seen....well, they won't be added to my home. IMO, minimum is the 870 series - but a shotgun can be unwieldy in close quarters.

#4 shot is my preference - and what my HD shotgun is loaded with on the first 4 rounds. The last 3 are slugs, just in case.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,257 posts, read 8,988,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
A shotgun is a good idea.

Since you seem undecided it might also mean you are inexperienced. I recommend whatever type of handgun you get, if you decide on one, to go to the range for a few visits and a course in gun safety and responsibility, do they even have those type of classes? I know CHL classes cover it all but if you just want something for home defense that would be wasteful in both time and money.

Also with a handgun use hollow points so your bullets won't end up at your neighbors.
A HP can still end up at the neighbors, so be careful. The HP doesn't necessarily mean that they won't go as far - just that they're designed to expand on impact to maximize the wound channel and energy transfer.

CHL classes cover VERY little in terms of gun handling - they're more designed to familiarize you with the legal requirements of concealed carry, and the legal basis of using deadly force. I'd NEVER suggest a neophyte attend a CHL class in the hope of getting gun training.

Almost any gun range can get you names of good instructors, and I know several myself - DM if you want more info in that regards. Owning a gun is a MAJOR responsibility - please, NEVER take it for granted! It can save your life....or ruin it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:52 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,257 posts, read 8,988,285 times
Reputation: 6342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
Since most instances of home defense that I can imagine are up close also consider the Glock 26. Being compact and less accurate at longer ranges does not degrade its use in home defense. Smaller also just seems easier, less wieldy, and 9mm has less recoil.
Each of us have to decide for ourselves - but for me, I'm of the mindset that anyone entering this house is likely drunk or under the influence of drugs, so I want the maximum knock-down power I can get without being overdone. Thus, my primary carry and HD round is the .45. 230 grains vs 115-130 of the 9mm is a pretty big difference.

Funny thing is, one of our board members here (I'll allow her to ID herself if she desires) was initially going for either 9 or 40mm, because she was concerned about the recoil of the .45. Took her out to the range a coupla weeks ago, and let her shoot .380, 9mm and .45. She found herself liking the .45 MUCH more than the 9mm! That will NOT be the experience of everyone, which is why I always tell folks to try for themselves and make their decision based on what THEY prefer, not me or anyone else.

I have about 15 .40 cals up to a year or two ago. Found myself really not liking the amount of recoil the .40 delivers. There's just something about the round that delivers a MUCH sharper recoil than that of the .45, so I got rid of all of them.

9mm....avoided 'em for years, simply because they're essentially the same size as a .45 compact, and without the punch. Toted .380 pocket pistols since the early 90's - started with the Mustang, and ended up with the Sig 238 (yeah...still have 'bout a dozen of the Mustangs...). When Sig introduced their P938, I found a pistol barely longer (by about 3/8") and wider (by 0.01") than the P238 - with a LOT more punch - sol I sold my 238's and bought 3 of the 938's, and haven't regretted it.

As always - your mileage may vary, and it's up to YOU to choose!
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