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Old 12-16-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX (78201)
604 posts, read 1,667,678 times
Reputation: 238

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course now I know we're talking about Mexican Nationals and not Mexican-Americans
the post still threw me off
and it was also my attempt at humor

 
Old 12-16-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Stone Oak
320 posts, read 933,208 times
Reputation: 159
SanLuisito or anyone else from Mexico, do these Mexican Nationals actually believe they can get away with cutting in front of a line and not being called on it and humiliated about it? I haven't seen it myself, but a friend of mine told me she has seen it twice at an HEB here in Stone Oak, one of the areas in San Antonio where they prefer to relocate. In both cases a Mexican National yacking away on the phone in Spanish just goes to the front of a line. Someone inevitably yells at her, everyone else in the line gives her a mean stare and the woman puts her tail between her legs and goes to the back of the line. Probably the last time they'll do that. Why do they believe they can get away with it or where did they learn this anti-social behavior? No one here in the United States would think of doing it. I can see them doing it in Mexico if shopping in a store amongst lower class people they view as servants, but I really doubt those rich people shop in those stores. If they then only shop in upper class shops I really doubt another rich person would allow them to cut in front of them. So where does the behavior come from?
 
Old 12-16-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, Mexico
275 posts, read 856,679 times
Reputation: 277
Believe guys, as somebody mention above you would see only rich mexicans travelling to San Antonio in the 90's and you only figure out that they were mexican, up to they open their mouth and speak spanish.

Just look at some comments from other of Houston, where real high-class mexicans goes there to make their shopping.

The great majority of people who go to San Antonio nowadays are mexican middle-class with a lack of education, and maybe their first in the USA. I also look at them, they are middle-class families and new rich families. I know a lot of high-class mexicans since they were born and always do their best to speak english and threat all employees well. Maybe you dont recognize them because they look like another white american.

I dont know if in the USA happens, but in Mexico is very common that one member of the family follow the line up to the cashier, and once this person reach the line the rest of the family members store all the items gathered with the cashier. Is that really considered unappropiated in the USA?
 
Old 12-16-2012, 01:38 PM
 
5,622 posts, read 6,404,848 times
Reputation: 3593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cramowheat View Post
Matttx, "adapt" from being wealthy Mexicans to middle-class Americans? Why are you assuming we are all middle-class? I hate that word "class" anyway. How about middle-income? Although, don't assume we are all that. Many people live below their means by choice...just like some do the opposite.
I don't see why your income or where you come from dictates good, old-fashioned social manners, which is my main beef with the Mexicans. Maybe I am just naive, being from the mid-west.
Here are my three biggest beefs and things I was taught are rude:
1. Stay out of the personal space of the shopper in front of you at the check-out.
2. Do not congregate in a circle in the middle of a busy isle (they seem to travel in big clans, which is fine).
3. When I have to cross in front of you in an isle while you are looking at something, I will say, "Excuse me". It would be nice just ONCE to hear, "Of course, sure, or no problem".
If we could just all use common courtesy, it would be wonderful.
You are right and you made some good points. Point I was trying to make is that "middle income" here isn't the same rank in Mexico. I am willing to bet majority of the "wealthy" in Mexico make no more than the avg upper middle class household in the US.
 
Old 12-16-2012, 02:55 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,425,802 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanluisito View Post
Believe guys, as somebody mention above you would see only rich mexicans travelling to San Antonio in the 90's and you only figure out that they were mexican, up to they open their mouth and speak spanish.

Just look at some comments from other of Houston, where real high-class mexicans goes there to make their shopping.

The great majority of people who go to San Antonio nowadays are mexican middle-class with a lack of education, and maybe their first in the USA. I also look at them, they are middle-class families and new rich families. I know a lot of high-class mexicans since they were born and always do their best to speak english and threat all employees well. Maybe you dont recognize them because they look like another white american.

I dont know if in the USA happens, but in Mexico is very common that one member of the family follow the line up to the cashier, and once this person reach the line the rest of the family members store all the items gathered with the cashier. Is that really considered unappropiated in the USA?
Yes, that is inappropriate.
 
Old 12-16-2012, 04:03 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 3,330,035 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewtexan View Post
I told them I would LOVE to see them try that crap in Boston, NYC, DC, or Philly. OH...MY...GOD.
That would be comedy gold right there. Relatives of mine (Boston Irish) would have a field day with people who pulled that kind of garbage...

It why I adore New Yorkers/Bostonians/Philadelphis: You always know where you stand. I'd rather have a piece of brute honesty over a toothy, fake grin any day.




BN

Last edited by BenjaminNicholas; 12-16-2012 at 04:13 PM..
 
Old 12-16-2012, 04:09 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 3,330,035 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me007gold View Post
That wasn't a jab at you, it was a blanket statement. Most nationals speak VERY good English.
SOME nationals speak decent English, but their cadence, overall flow and familiarity with American colloquialism is still pretty iffy. They would never pass for native speakers, but then I'm somewhat of a schoolmarm for grammar and how one speaks... Henry Higgins was my personal hero



BN
 
Old 12-16-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,103,487 times
Reputation: 4435
Coincidentally...

Shoppers from Mexico boost holiday sales for U.S. retailers | kens5.com San Antonio

Notable excerpts...
Quote:
The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas estimates “Mexicans spend more than $4.5 billion annually on food, clothing, auto parts and other retail items in the border cities, primarily El Paso, McAllen, Brownsville and Laredo.
Quote:
In Laredo, shoppers from Mexico account for as much as 45 percent of retails sales.
Quote:
"Holiday shoppers from Mexico visiting outlet stores here spent roughly twice as much as their American counterparts visiting from outside the San Antonio and Austin areas," according to the study titled "Mexican National Cross-Border Shopping: Exploration of Retail Tourism." The study was published in the Journal of Retailing and Consumer Services.
 
Old 12-16-2012, 10:33 PM
 
12 posts, read 24,143 times
Reputation: 65
Default Cutting in line and cultural context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StanStelle View Post
SanLuisito or anyone else from Mexico, do these Mexican Nationals actually believe they can get away with cutting in front of a line and not being called on it and humiliated about it? I haven't seen it myself, but a friend of mine told me she has seen it twice at an HEB here in Stone Oak, one of the areas in San Antonio where they prefer to relocate. In both cases a Mexican National yacking away on the phone in Spanish just goes to the front of a line. Someone inevitably yells at her, everyone else in the line gives her a mean stare and the woman puts her tail between her legs and goes to the back of the line. Probably the last time they'll do that. Why do they believe they can get away with it or where did they learn this anti-social behavior? No one here in the United States would think of doing it. I can see them doing it in Mexico if shopping in a store amongst lower class people they view as servants, but I really doubt those rich people shop in those stores. If they then only shop in upper class shops I really doubt another rich person would allow them to cut in front of them. So where does the behavior come from?

Being a "mexican national" that has lived in the US for about 11 years now (came to the US to do some post-graduate training, then went back to Mexico to work as it was my original plan but returned to the US after being offered a job offer I could not refuse) I can tell you both sides of the story. I was at some point one of those "nationals" coming for shopping every now and then (I never considered myself or my family rude, but then I am not part of the self-perceived "elite" from Mexico that DO have a sense of entitlement not much different from the "top 1 percent" from the US). Now as somebody that has lived here in the US for a while, I see sometimes some of the "rude" behavior from mexican nationals that people mention here. I would like to add my two cents:

- Perception of "Personal Space" is different in Mexico (and most of Latin America) and the US. People that are considered "close talkers" here are seen as normal in Mexico, and the separation considered polite between people in line, even in ATM machines, is much closer in Mexico. This is not an issue of rudeness, but of culture. Most people from Mexico that live here for a while soon realize that and adapt to the local culture. But most people that travel here only occasionally would be shocked (and a little embarrassed) that they are being seen as rude.

- Shopping lines in Mexico are different (less organized), and often there is no separation in space (as in many stores here) between the cashier "island" and the people on line. More than once I found myself getting into what I thought was an "empty line" only to find out, somewhat embarrassedly, that I was actually cutting in line (of course going then red faced to the end of the line). I do not doubt that some people do cut on line in purpose and just do not care about other people, but I would not be surprised that many do it without even realize it (as they are too busy talking on their walkie-talkies or cellphones)...

- Latin people are louder. No question about it and no excuses here. Italians are the loudest though.

- Talking about walkie-talkies: cellphone roaming and text messages from the mexican cell companies are outrageously expensive (that is why the owner of the Mexican phone company is the richest person in the world). a couple of days of texting your family to find out where they are could go into the hundreds of dollars. My father in law incurred on a 500 dollar bill for forgetting to turn his roaming off for two days!!
Using walkie-talkies is a smart way of avoiding those charges. I would do the same. My sister does it all the time to communicate with her teenage kids when they come to visit.

- Tips are different in Mexico and many parts of Latin America. For whatever reason, in Mexico a 10 % tip is considered sufficient for top service. They do not realize that they are almost "insulting" the waiter with their relatively low tip. Some people eventually learn and adapt, but even rich people with the means of giving a "normal" tip believe truly that 10% is good enough.

- As mentioned before, some of the people we see here are part of the "top 1 percent" from Mexico and do have a sense of entitlement. Their behavior can be inappropriate, rude and inconsiderate. There is no justification for that. But I have seen similar behavior within the American top 1 percent. It is wrong regardless of nationality and location.


Being a San Antonio, resident, I am grateful for the money that fellow mexican nationals infuse every year to our economy. It has helped maintain unemployment low, housing prices stable, and unfortunately it has been somewhat hampered by the recent violence in the north of Mexico that has increased the risk of travel by car. Most people from Mexico consider locals to be very polite, helpful and friendly. I am proud to be part of both cultures now. Let's use less stereotypes and find a way to foster understanding and mutual respect. And let's teach them a little about how to make a decent line in the supermarket (just kidding).
 
Old 12-17-2012, 06:56 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,257 posts, read 8,985,070 times
Reputation: 6341
Martgonman - THANK YOU! GREAT insight in so many ways, and one of the best explanations I've seen. I guess I don't go to the places the others mention often enough to see it, but a daughter works retail, and I have shared this with her!

My own experience has been that most Mexican nationals in the upper income brackets are generally thoughtful, kind folks, with a level of courtesy beyond what we see of our own citizens. However, their cultural norms often make them appear otherwise. Just as we might be perceived as louts in other countries (when measured against THEIR norms), so do our Mexican guests. Perhaps rather than to get mad with them, give them the benefit of the doubt (and a huge slice of San Antonio friendly) and smile at them and let them know where the end of the line (or whatever else they seem to be ignoring) is. Plenty of time to cop a 'tude if needed - but remember that human nature is to return what you receive, so courtesy and politeness will encourage them to do the same.

Loud? Well - don't get near one of OUR family gatherings! My wife often commented on how loud my family is (not really complaining about it, but it always surprised her). As I pointed out to her - my parents' generation was one of 11 children, there were 5 kids in MY family. Being a quiet shrinking violet was the quick way to be left out of something....

I've traveled a number of countries - both in Europe, Asia and the Americas - and have always tried hard to understand the societal norms prior to getting there, simply to avoid the faux pas so many encounter when traveling. Even so, there will be little things (or big ones) that'll get by you, and you'll suddenly find yourself getting dirty looks. Me, I ain't bashful - I'll ask someone what I've done wrong. That usually results in a polite explanation, an apology on my part - and a friendly parting of the ways. If we'll take the time to POLITELY try to "educate" folks in a tactful and friendly manner, I think it'd be worth the effort.
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