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Old 12-03-2007, 12:46 PM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,693,439 times
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Because even if you don't have kids yourself, you benefit as a member of your community from schools. Just like libraries, we all benefit, just like roads, just like police force. We may never use them personally, but it makes our town and society a better, safer, more pleasing place to live.

 
Old 12-03-2007, 01:45 PM
 
83 posts, read 167,553 times
Reputation: 44
Default Better than I could say it

Here's an article that puts it in perspective a lot more thoroughly and
understandably than I am prepared to. Pardon me for not spending weeks accumulating data from various sources and sending it over a fax tree or uploading to a BBS....this copy and paste stuff is waaaay too tempting.

"Over the next 25 years, the number of Americans aged 65 and up is expected to almost double. The work population will shrink and more and more baby boomers will be drawing Social Security and Medicare benefits, putting new demands on the government's resources."

National debt grows $1 million a minute - Yahoo! News (broken link)


Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
well, if that's the case, then why don't the politicians just come out and say that we are UNDERpopulated?, and that in order to bolster the social security system, we need more younger workers. they certainly could have made that case by now.
 
Old 12-03-2007, 02:39 PM
 
83 posts, read 167,553 times
Reputation: 44
Default Yeah, but I wonder

Having already done our required share to help get two cycles of K-twelvers through school, and into our third, (no kids in public school ever) one could start to wonder how MANY generations we need to contribute to in order to realize all these benefits.

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of the neighborhoods we have seen kids come from aren't the same neighborhoods anymore. Many of them are much the worse for wear. Does this mean the houses are worth less, and that the tax base has shrunk? A lot of these neighborhoods become occupied with people who are not as productive as the people who left them and may tend to consume more government services. I don't think people consider this when they plan for the future. It's all about now.

In the past I have been a proactive property owner in a "neighborhood of
transition." Never again. Take the money and run!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondD View Post
Because even if you don't have kids yourself, you benefit as a member of your community from schools. Just like libraries, we all benefit, just like roads, just like police force. We may never use them personally, but it makes our town and society a better, safer, more pleasing place to live.
 
Old 12-05-2007, 08:06 AM
 
83 posts, read 167,553 times
Reputation: 44
Default Along the same lines

A story about a recent development in the California school system.

WorldNetDaily: Homosexodus! Students flee forced 'gay' agenda

This could have implications here as well. Text books are printed
to be in tune with prevailing attitudes in mega-trend states like Ca., Texas, and Florida. If this becomes the norm and I am adamantly opposed to this philosophy, should I be forced to support it with my tax dollars?

Why do some teachers refer to themselves as "agents of change?"
I don't think I want to pay them to be that.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondD View Post
Because even if you don't have kids yourself, you benefit as a member of your community from schools. Just like libraries, we all benefit, just like roads, just like police force. We may never use them personally, but it makes our town and society a better, safer, more pleasing place to live.
 
Old 12-05-2007, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Smalltown, USA
3,111 posts, read 8,326,647 times
Reputation: 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy1 View Post
A story about a recent development in the California school system.

WorldNetDaily: Homosexodus! Students flee forced 'gay' agenda
That article p****s me off!!! I would yank my kids out so fast. I shouldn't have read that story, I can feel my blood boiling.
I know it is out there and there is no denying it but I'm not going to sit back and let someone tell my kids that it is OK. I could go on and on about this but this isn't the place. I'm sure I will get slammed for this, but I am sick and tired of people not caring about MY rights.

Back on topic. sorry I have no comments about the taxes. I hate them too but it is something that I don't see us getting out of any time soon (at least not in my lifetime).
 
Old 12-06-2007, 10:46 AM
 
83 posts, read 167,553 times
Reputation: 44
Default Divide and conquer?

Whether by design or circumstance, so many of us are at odds with each other, that you wonder if we will ever be able to achieve any kind of consensus on anything ever again.

It is all so convoluted and overwhelming that it's easy to throw your hands in the air and conclude that there's no dealing with it all. The article is news to a lot of people I'm sure, but this situation has been developing for years, and there is discussion on the federal level about it. There is also discussion in D.C. about what kinds of vending machines if any, you will be allowed to put in your schools. It may seem unrelated, but federal mandates and guidlines do have a big effect on local costs of doing business. Private schools and homeschooling are certainly gaining in popularity. I believe the last time I googled home schooling I got nearly half a billion hits. Knock yerself out! Maybe, over time, we will see that government education policies and micromanagement will prove to be an intolerable obstacle and not the solution at all, and we will evolve toward something simpler that works better.

I don't think I will see reform in my lifetime either. It took decades to get
here, and I think it will take decades to get back, if we ever do at all.
I can't find any instance of socialism working on a large scale or for long.
The road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions.
Self interest is at the root of what makes most of us tick. Ants and bees do a whole lot better at the collectivist thing than we ever will.
It appears that lots of the disagreements we have are over who gets a bigger piece of the taxpayer funded pie, whether it's on the local, county, state, or federal level. It's not constructive, and it is self-perpetuating. There has to be a limit to the amount of confusion and expense and frustration we can tolerate and we may come to abandon the expensive complexities in favor of some sanity by necessity as much as by choice. Look at the tax code. If you ask the IRS a question about it, they only get it right 3/4 of the time. How many more pages of it will be written before nobody knows what the right answer is? The cost of compliance is often multiples of the tax collected. There is a limit to the amount of complexities we can tolerate as a society, as businesses, and as individuals. If we are headed for a collective nervous breakdown, maybe the sooner the better?

If you want to drive someone nuts, try putting them in a conflicted situation that has no apparent solution.

Which bathroom will you be using today?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Malone View Post
That article p****s me off!!! I would yank my kids out so fast. I shouldn't have read that story, I can feel my blood boiling.
I know it is out there and there is no denying it but I'm not going to sit back and let someone tell my kids that it is OK. I could go on and on about this but this isn't the place. I'm sure I will get slammed for this, but I am sick and tired of people not caring about MY rights.

Back on topic. sorry I have no comments about the taxes. I hate them too but it is something that I don't see us getting out of any time soon (at least not in my lifetime).
 
Old 12-08-2007, 01:28 PM
 
13 posts, read 75,493 times
Reputation: 19
There is a lot of money wasted when it comes to government. What is interesting here in Cal, many people are home schooling yet our taxes haven't changed a bit. Truth is, we pay taxes for many things we may or may not use. It is balanced to meet needs for everyone.

I don't have kids, but I support the system to supply education for children even if I pay a small amount from my own pocket.

Michael

Last edited by michael550; 12-08-2007 at 01:28 PM.. Reason: a
 
Old 12-09-2007, 08:07 AM
 
83 posts, read 167,553 times
Reputation: 44
Default Bang for the buck

The US Chamber of Commerce has taken some pains
to put together an analysis of our education efforts.
Looks to me like taxpayers are paying lots more for a lot less
in most cases. I think we have little to brag about
and MUCH to complain about. The system may be balanced
to meet "someone's" needs, but I seriously question that's
it's the taxpayers or the students.

I can't understand why you would be smug about contributing
your support to a system that fielded an "F" in academic
achievement and a "D" for return on investment.



U.S. Chamber of Commerce - Leaders and Laggards: A State-by-State Report Card on Educational Effectiveness



"Are taxpayers getting what they pay for? After inflation, education spending in the United States has tripled in the past four decades. Yet there is little evidence that student achievement has improved as a result. In fact, there has been a disconcerting lack of attention to efficiency or to ensuring that educational dollars are delivering real value. Educators and policymakers, focused for too long on inputs rather than outputs, have tolerated programs and reforms that have not yielded the returns we need."


Quote:
Originally Posted by michael550 View Post
There is a lot of money wasted when it comes to government. What is interesting here in Cal, many people are home schooling yet our taxes haven't changed a bit. Truth is, we pay taxes for many things we may or may not use. It is balanced to meet needs for everyone.

I don't have kids, but I support the system to supply education for children even if I pay a small amount from my own pocket.

Michael
 
Old 12-09-2007, 01:42 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
944 posts, read 2,807,460 times
Reputation: 263
Conversely, should parents with a non-discriminatory stance be forced to support conservative bigotry in the classroom?
 
Old 12-10-2007, 09:13 AM
 
83 posts, read 167,553 times
Reputation: 44
Default Slant right

I agree that a healthy amount of skepticism for any source is advisable. I don't know that contempt is particularly useful, but if that's what you feel, I think you're probably on solid legal ground. It's probably not a hate crime. I'm not sure critics of SB 777 in California can be quite so confidant though.........

Certainly, groups like NAMBLA, the North American Man Boy Love Association, would have an entirely different take on the matter....perhaps you could post an alternative view that excites you?

In the context of a discussion on school taxes, I think
the cost of implementing an initiative to make schools
indoctrination centers for alternative life styles comes into play. The cost of related law suits is an entirely difffernt matter. I personally would not pay a penny to do so. It has nothing to do with education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
I wouldn't believe ANYTHING that comes out of that right wing gay-baiting rag.
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