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Old 12-10-2007, 10:51 AM
83 posts, read 167,576 times
Reputation: 44


I think grownups will have these discussions and disagreements.
Not sure we need to bring it down to the grade school level.

I personally believe that schools should stay out of the business of addressing a child's sexuality. I think I would support a law to make it illegal for them to do so. It just preempts parental authority. And it looks like an entitlement plan for a whole new layer of beureaucrats, therapists, counsellors, and legalists that I really don't care to pay for. It may even amount to state-sanctioned sexual child abuse, depending on your perspective.

I think we have more than enough laws to take care of bigotry and discrimination, sexual assault and physical assault. Laws that attempt to force acceptance of naturally opposing viewpoints seem ridiculous to me. Tolerance is one thing. Forced acceptance is quite another from either perspective.

I can't imagine why any of us would want to project our adult bedroom concerns into the public schools, but that seems to be where we're headed. It will be controversial, polarizing, expensive, and in the end, I think the minority gay community will not be better off for their efforts.
A majority of people find the whole trans-gender, homosexual,
bisexual, pedophile thing to be repulsive and unhealthy. I think it may be an instinctive reaction as much as a conscious one. A number of health statistics support this conclusion. I don't see how you change that with laws or school policies. We might find common ground in agreeing that both the church and the gay activists should keep their mitts off the kids when they are in tax-payer funded public schools?

Originally Posted by hello13685 View Post
Conversely, should parents with a non-discriminatory stance be forced to support conservative bigotry in the classroom?

Old 12-10-2007, 11:53 AM
83 posts, read 167,576 times
Reputation: 44
Default Cut to the chase

I hate to couch this debate in these simplistic and indelicate terms, but what we are basically talking about here is an authority figure in a public school classroom explaining to a child that he should be open and receptive to dropping his drawers, bending over, and taking it in the *ss.

I don't think this is a proper or necessary role for a public school teacher to take. If a child needs to be exposed to alternative lifestyles, he can do it on his own or his parents' nickel, certainly not mine.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
I wouldn't believe ANYTHING that comes out of that right wing gay-baiting rag.
Old 12-10-2007, 04:38 PM
Location: San Antonio
944 posts, read 2,807,600 times
Reputation: 263
Woodsy1, I consider your comments to be completely off-topic--not to mention ill-informed and insulting to civilized individuals (pedophilia and homosexuality cross-listed??? Do you not realize how insulting that is to an entire class of people?). Prospective transplants, note that despite this, such comments will not be removed from these boards. Flip comments about chewing tobacco and KB-Homes are considered insulting. Blatant homonegativity is sanctioned and embraced on these forums.
Old 12-10-2007, 05:07 PM
580 posts, read 1,280,017 times
Reputation: 941
All right, this is all going to rush out, and I'm not going to edit it. . . .

I agree with Hello here. Woodsy is completely out of line. I thought about flagging his last post for "abuse," but I assume that I'd be called out as some kind of PC fascist for it. I'm not, but associating "gay" with "pedophile" is complete wacko rightwing nutjob talk. The majority of "pedophilia" involves heterosexuals, after all.

As for discussing gay issues in schools--it should be done. School can be a living hell for gay youth. I was fairly "enlightened" during my years in high school, but I remember the way we teased and harassed those who didn't conform to the typical gender norms. Gay teens have a suicide rate that is WAY above that of straight teens. (It was triple that of straight teens, last time I looked.) And it's not because they're ill or evil--it's because our school systems make them feel out of place, unaccepted, and fated for a future that could never be happy.

By the way, I'm as straight as they come, but any time I hear this kind of idiocy, it really peeves me, and I won't back down. Schools socialize children. It's as simple as that. And no matter how "neutral" we feel that they are, they're always going to contain an abundance of info that tells kids that being heterosexual is fine--and it is. But, there needs to be something for the young people who don't fit into that category.

No one is trying to "indoctrinate" anyone. They're just trying to let a certain minority know that they're worth something, and to tell others the same. Public schools are secular institutions, and they should be spaces in which all young people feel at home.

So go back to your bizarre websites (love the ad for "Zion Oil") and imagine that they're "fair and balanced." I know many, many gay folk and progressive teachers and gay rights activists, and they're some of the most caring, sensible, and high-minded people around. They're not out to "convert" anyone. In fact, most of them believe that that can't be done.

Save the condemnation for church. School should be a place where kids know that they can do well and succeed and fit in despite their sexuality.
Not saying anything about it is not enough, like it or not.

To bring it back to SA: I've found this city to be very tolerant, at least in many neighborhoods. There are many progressive people in Texas, and there are also strong remnants of the better kind of libertarianism, which didn't suffer from the homophobia that now dominates the Republican party.
Old 12-10-2007, 05:12 PM
580 posts, read 1,280,017 times
Reputation: 941
By the way, Woodsy--as I'm sure you know and approve of--it's legal in most cities and states to fire someone or to refuse them rental because they're gay. You're right--who needs those "extra" rights and "extra" laws?!!!
Old 12-10-2007, 05:22 PM
2,896 posts, read 6,027,808 times
Reputation: 5022
yikes!! It appears as though this one has probably gone about as far as it needs to! I can't imagine it happening but I'm gonna close this down until the assigned moderator can take a look at it and determine if any further discussion is warranted. For those commenting on what they perceive is allowed and what is not may I respond by letting y'all know that we have over 8000 posts a day coming in and a fairly small but mighty moderating crew. We depend on the members to understand and follow the terms of service they agreed to when they signed up and for those that don't we ask that you report the threads that have gone out of control, like someone did in this circumstance.
Old 12-10-2007, 08:17 PM
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 7,934,352 times
Reputation: 5985
Yep, this has gone way off topic. Too far to even bring it back. If you'd like to continue this type of discussion I suggest you head on over to Politics & Other Controversies.
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