U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-16-2007, 06:01 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 7,987,861 times
Reputation: 1411

Advertisements

I agree with you, by the time I am 85, the ISD would have taxed me out of my home anyway

 
Old 10-16-2007, 07:26 PM
 
616 posts, read 1,853,692 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
I mean, it all seems so simple really, make the parents pay, I mean, it's THEIR children, THEIR responsibilty. Period. Ugh, this whole issue just hacks me.
Then what happens to the people who cannot afford to educate their children? There are a lot of people who work two and three jobs and barely make ends meet. They are all around us here in San Antonio. What is society to do with these disadvantaged children? Are they supposed to roam the streets, or maybe they should just go to work alongside their parents, much like how things were in the 19th century before child labor laws, when children as young as five worked 50 and 60 hour weeks in the factories alongside adults?

If society does not make a good-faith effort to educate its children, then the society ends up with a permanent underclass, a veritable proletariat good for nothing more than the harshest forms of manual labor. This is the sort of social situation we've moved away from in the US since the middle part of the 19th century, and it's the type of situation that Third World countries are desperately trying to get away from right now.

And I say this as someone who has never set foot in a public school a day in her life. I'm the product of private preschool, K-12, college and now a private law school. That doesn't mean that I'm going to pull up the ladder and tell the people who aren't able to provide the same sorts of opportunities to their children that, tough cookies, their children don't deserve at least a minimum education. That's not the stance of an enlightened society.
 
Old 10-16-2007, 08:09 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 7,987,861 times
Reputation: 1411
ER
If this is true, why is there so much crime today and confused kids. I don't mind paying a school tax which is an investment in our future but not at the expense of huge building and underpaid teachers
 
Old 10-16-2007, 08:21 PM
 
616 posts, read 1,853,692 times
Reputation: 283
My post had more to do with the poster's statement that I quoted that there should be no societal responsibility to educate children, not with the problems with the existing American public eduation structure.

The school system as it exists today is flawed. That doesn't mean the answer is to throw up one's hands and decide that education should only be available to those who can afford it, consequences be damned. I think this thread has been really beneficial because people are talking about the system and trying to hash out what works and what doesn't.

Also, I'm going to argue that there have always been messed up kids. I've seen enough 50s-era news reels screeching about the dangers of juvenile delinquency (those naughty teen boys with their pegged jeans and their ducktails are going to ruin society!) and enough commentary going back to the 17th century to know that every culture is worried about what it perceives as the failings of its younger generations. I don't think that in this time, in this place (San Antonio) there are substantially more "confused kids" than there were at any other time or place.

I don't really have any comments about fancy buildings or anything, though I will note that wiring a school to be compliant with technology nowadays is going to be pricier. Gone are the days when you could furnish a classroom with a pull-down screen and a blackboard and call it a day.
 
Old 10-16-2007, 08:38 PM
 
174 posts, read 450,693 times
Reputation: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
Yes, generally if the grade is less than 50, a 50 is given. However, the original grade is also recorded.
Why?? Isn't grading for the purpose of determining skills? If the child fails to grasp the concepts being taught, isn't that a deficiency that needs to be addressed instead of artificially inflating their grades? I can only see two possible explanations for this reasoning. Either the school system feels the tests are not good indicators and are themselves flawed, or the idea is to skate the student, hoping they'll catch up along the way. Neither of these explanations sets well with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
Our school has vocabulary/spelling each week. NEISD Language Arts curriculum requires a word wall in elementary classrooms, along with spelling tests. I do know of parents who have argued with the school, stating that there shouldn't be spelling tests.
I am familiar with the Word Wall words. Many of the same words are repeated year after year. The root of the problem lies in the incomplete teaching of phonetics. Yes, the school system has given a nod to phonetics, but they do not teach it completely or correctly. They give it a brief start, and then proceed to "sight" words, which is just totally idiotic.

Are you aware that if you take a paragraph, leave the first and last letters to every word in place, but mix up the internal letters to each word, you can still read the paragraph at the same rate? That's because of how the brain processes words when reading. This is exactly why "sight" words work against spelling.

Spelling is vitally important. It is directly connected to reading comprehension. You see writing on the internet all the time which contains spelling errors. Of that, how many times do you see something riddled with errors yet is grammatically correct and cohesive in thought? More likely it is a shotgun blast of thoughts strewn together into a muddled mass which requires deciphering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
We check ALL homework. Students self correct with the class. We do not grade every piece of daily work, but we do correct them.

And, we allow re-do's only on tests, not daily work. It must be signed and returned to next day, for a maximum of 70.
This is in direct contradiction to what I was told. I was specifically told by the teacher that the children did not turn in their homework, that it was gone over in class only.

My experience is that they allow the children to redo daily graded work, and not the tests, which is preferable amongst two unacceptable options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
Each school/grade level, as I understand, chooses the policy that fits their school the best.
Yes, I've looked up the document on the NEISD adminstrative website. So, what makes the difference between two schools? The children, the teachers or the administration? I'll tell you this much, I've learned there is a correlation with the socio-economic make-up of the neighborhoods the school is servicing. These policies aren't in place as you move up the economic ladder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
As for estimation, it is one of the most frequently used math skills in daily life. It is not taught in place of other skills, but rather in addition to other skills. Believe me, it does take kids quite a while to grasp what is reasonable. Refining estimation skills now will help them later on when they are in higher level math courses. In order to check your answers, it is helpful to know whether your answer is reasonable.
Oh pooh. You check your answers to see if they are correct, not see if they are in the ball park. It takes a while for them to grasp the concept because it isn't reasonable. I see where the thought lies, that if they can see that the answer should be odd and they have an even answer, then they know they've made a mistake. But, I seriously doubt you'll find a single student who employs estimation in checking their work. It's far better to just teach them to write out their answer and go back and check the steps of their work. If their grades had any meaning to them, then perhaps they'd do just that.

I've taken higher math courses and don't recall ever using estimation as a tool for checking my work. I wrote everything out, as required, and then went back over the steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
I understand your frustration, but there are always two sides...
Yes, there are and please don't think I am attacking you or your profession. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the bureaucracy which twiddles with the education of our future. Some common sense and housecleaning are sorely needed. Teachers need to be allowed to teach instead of filling their heads with edu-speak and convoluted theories which are counterproductive.
 
Old 10-16-2007, 09:03 PM
 
4,796 posts, read 13,711,684 times
Reputation: 2709
Public school, private school and home schooling.....been there and done them all. They all have pros and cons...and each child/parent/method of education is different. Fit the glove to the hand! I'm just glad we all have a choice. I'm even more glad my kids are done with it!

RE: paying taxes will not go away. Why fund the library if you don't use it? Why pay for any public service if it's not needed by an individual??? What about senior citizen centers if you're not 65?? If we had a system that actually catered to the specific wants and needs of EACH individual, we'd have so much paperwork and red tape that we'd have to increase taxes to pay for either more jobs or computer systems to manage such a nightmare!
 
Old 10-16-2007, 09:09 PM
 
28,139 posts, read 39,748,049 times
Reputation: 36563
It's called social responsibility.

Buck up Skippy, or move to China.
 
Old 10-16-2007, 09:18 PM
 
546 posts, read 2,820,009 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanor Rigby View Post
Then what happens to the people who cannot afford to educate their children?
Simple...they should use this newfangled invention called birth control. If you can't afford to raise children properly, then don't have them. Sure, I'd like an olympic-sized pool, a red Ferrari, and a Donald Judd sculture in my front yard, well, tough luck for me, can't afford 'em, can't afford their upkeep either, so I skip 'em (until I CAN afford to do so). People should approach child-rearing with the same attitude. Can't afford to feed them, clothe them, educate them? Then skip 'em.

Last edited by AustinTraveler; 10-17-2007 at 07:57 AM.. Reason: fixed quote
 
Old 10-16-2007, 09:20 PM
 
Location: SoCal-So Proud!
4,263 posts, read 9,691,565 times
Reputation: 1541
and now back to......reality!
 
Old 10-16-2007, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Mid South Central TX
3,183 posts, read 7,413,739 times
Reputation: 2188
The reason for the 50 is so that one grade doesn't sink a student. My final goal is for the student to learn the material, not "get a good grade". If a student corrects their work, and shows me that they have made an honest effort to re-learn or re-calculate, then I will give them the MINIMUM passing grade. Again, the ultimate goal is to learn.

The reason that you see certain word wall words year after year is that many of them are high frequency, yet often misspelled words. Most people will look up unusual words, but will NOT bother to spell "because" correctly. Word wall words are not sight words: they are high frequency words. And, I never SAID that spelling wasn't important. I said that we do have spelling tests.

As for whether to allow redos on daily vs tests? We decided that daily work generally had more supporting materials available. In other words, usually books, notes, etc. If you aren't able to do the work then, then something else is going on.

As for checking your work with estimation, I too have taken higher math courses. And yes, I would work backwards to make sure my answers were correct. But I could also quickly check by seeing if my answer was reasonable.

By the way, this is not edu-speak. These are my opinions. And, as I stated before, I didn't disagree with you necessarily. Like I said, since no two children are alike, there is no "perfect" system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Why?? Isn't grading for the purpose of determining skills? If the child fails to grasp the concepts being taught, isn't that a deficiency that needs to be addressed instead of artificially inflating their grades? I can only see two possible explanations for this reasoning. Either the school system feels the tests are not good indicators and are themselves flawed, or the idea is to skate the student, hoping they'll catch up along the way. Neither of these explanations sets well with me.



I am familiar with the Word Wall words. Many of the same words are repeated year after year. The root of the problem lies in the incomplete teaching of phonetics. Yes, the school system has given a nod to phonetics, but they do not teach it completely or correctly. They give it a brief start, and then proceed to "sight" words, which is just totally idiotic.

Are you aware that if you take a paragraph, leave the first and last letters to every word in place, but mix up the internal letters to each word, you can still read the paragraph at the same rate? That's because of how the brain processes words when reading. This is exactly why "sight" words work against spelling.

Spelling is vitally important. It is directly connected to reading comprehension. You see writing on the internet all the time which contains spelling errors. Of that, how many times do you see something riddled with errors yet is grammatically correct and cohesive in thought? More likely it is a shotgun blast of thoughts strewn together into a muddled mass which requires deciphering.



This is in direct contradiction to what I was told. I was specifically told by the teacher that the children did not turn in their homework, that it was gone over in class only.

My experience is that they allow the children to redo daily graded work, and not the tests, which is preferable amongst two unacceptable options.



Yes, I've looked up the document on the NEISD adminstrative website. So, what makes the difference between two schools? The children, the teachers or the administration? I'll tell you this much, I've learned there is a correlation with the socio-economic make-up of the neighborhoods the school is servicing. These policies aren't in place as you move up the economic ladder.



Oh pooh. You check your answers to see if they are correct, not see if they are in the ball park. It takes a while for them to grasp the concept because it isn't reasonable. I see where the thought lies, that if they can see that the answer should be odd and they have an even answer, then they know they've made a mistake. But, I seriously doubt you'll find a single student who employs estimation in checking their work. It's far better to just teach them to write out their answer and go back and check the steps of their work. If their grades had any meaning to them, then perhaps they'd do just that.

I've taken higher math courses and don't recall ever using estimation as a tool for checking my work. I wrote everything out, as required, and then went back over the steps.



Yes, there are and please don't think I am attacking you or your profession. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the bureaucracy which twiddles with the education of our future. Some common sense and housecleaning are sorely needed. Teachers need to be allowed to teach instead of filling their heads with edu-speak and convoluted theories which are counterproductive.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top