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Old 01-10-2013, 08:05 AM
 
824 posts, read 1,605,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpantle View Post
Low-density?
Yes. Residential densities in sprawl average around 2.5 units/acre. Along Broadway near Pearl, for example, the densities are closer to 70 units/acre.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:26 AM
 
824 posts, read 1,605,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminNicholas View Post
Moderator cut: see comment

This city will see progress whether they want/like it or not. The old are dying out... Younger people with money are ready to step up and make sure this city actually goes somewhere.

Moderator cut: off-topic

BN
Very well-said. I work with our local governments on a regular basis. And these organizations are far from perfect, and clearly not as efficient as private businesses. There's waste, and there are politicians with giants egos that pursue vanity projects, and all that stuff.

But the anti-government fanatics Moderator cut: see comment have a hatred towards the role of government, especially local government, that's hard for me to understand.

And like you said, BN, there are plenty of people (of all political stripes) working to make this city a better place to live. And it's going to happen over the objections of people that believe our evil/idiotic/oppressive local governments should do nothing except build more free highways, fill potholes, and pick up garbage.

Back to the subject: the downtown streetcar project absolutely merits debate & discussion (although a good time to get involved would have been 3 years ago, when the city & county held multiple planning sessions and meetings that were advertised and open to the public). It's very expensive, it's benefit/ridership will be more limited at first, and I think the assertion that it will automatically lead to more dense mixed-use development in our center city is overstated.

But saying something is a waste because you don't like it (or because the city/county are "liars & thieves") won't lead to much productive debate or discussion. As I mentioned, I think building the 281/1604 interchange was a mistake, and a poor way to prioritize the public monies that are available to spend on transportation. But I don't think it's a "waste" (because even if I don't like it, plenty of people will use it) and I accept the fact that the governments we elect have the authority to make decisions like this.

They can even make decisions I (gasp!) don't agree with.

Last edited by BstYet2Be; 01-10-2013 at 04:06 PM.. Reason: Personal comments/attacks are not permitted per TOS - attack the idea(s) but NOT the Speaker(s) of the idea(s)
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:27 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,751 posts, read 3,869,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvlpr View Post
Yes. Residential densities in sprawl average around 2.5 units/acre. Along Broadway near Pearl, for example, the densities are closer to 70 units/acre.

Maybe for the Pearl lol. The lots in the single family neighborhoods have huge lots along Broadway.

Moderator cut: off-topic for this thread

Last edited by BstYet2Be; 01-10-2013 at 04:07 PM.. Reason: changed font red to bold black in quoted text
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:00 AM
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Location: Ohio
16,822 posts, read 33,209,949 times
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Discussing the streetcar issue is a moot point now. It just passed the council 7-3, with the reps from north side Districts 8, 9 and 10 voting no. Links to confirm should be up momentarily.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvlpr View Post
Yes. Residential densities in sprawl average around 2.5 units/acre. Along Broadway near Pearl, for example, the densities are closer to 70 units/acre.
So with that statistic, an overpass system servicing any area with less density than downtown makes zero sense? I would think that a traffic count analysis would be a better tool, as well as an environmental impact study. Personally, I'm happy those tools were used.

I'll give you the fact that the folks who live up there are "auto-dependant", but this IS Texas, and the majority of the population are "auto-dependant" as well. Government shouldn't turn it's back on that reality. The localities of D/FW, Houston, and Houston haven't, and their population seems to live in geographic harmony.

IMO, the City can build all of streetcar lines they wish, but they sure as heck better take care of the rest of their jurisdiction as well. If they choose to incorporate, they should service.

Last edited by dpantle; 01-10-2013 at 01:56 PM..
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:47 PM
 
824 posts, read 1,605,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpantle View Post
So with that statistic, an overpass system servicing any area with less density than downtown makes zero sense? I would think that a traffic count analysis would be a better tool, as well as an environmental impact study. Personally, I'm happy those tools were used.

I'll give you the fact that the folks who live up there are "auto-dependant", but this IS Texas, and the majority of the population are "auto-dependant" as well. Government shouldn't turn it's back on that reality. The localities of D/FW, Houston, and Houston haven't, and their population seems to live in geographic harmony.

IMO, the City can build all of streetcar lines they wish, but they sure as heck better take care of the rest of their jurisdiction as well. If they choose to incorporate, they should service.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said here.

It's not that I believe that building an overpass system makes "zero sense". But I do think it subsidizes existing sprawl (people who moved to far-flung suburban areas anticipating that "someone" would ultimately provide the infrastructure they need to drive 30+ miles per day). And I think it will encourage the development of even more sprawl (since the new overpass has temporarily diminished traffic congestion) which will require ever-more highways/overpasses/etc.

Therefore, it's a matter or priorities of directing our limited public resources towards infrastructure that's more sustainable in the future (meaning infrastructure that supports compact, walkable neighborhoods with multiple transit modes).

But your point is well-taken, and I agree: it's not an either/or proposition.

I will disagree with your suggestion that because Texas is currently auto-dependent means that it should always be auto-dependent.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,330 posts, read 6,271,716 times
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It is auto-dependent because we havent put any money in anywhere else to help out with our transportation needs. I am sure the "build it and they will come" mentality fits here. Build the light rail and people will utilize it...

Yes it will cost money to build it but then does it cost money to fill those pot holes? To repave our roads due to overuse? Keep re-widening lanes on a highway that is over utilized because our transportation needs are growing faster then we can keep up with it?

Lets all look at this from a bigger prospective... besides your wallet.. wether you like it or not.. your hind end is going to be taxed either for fixing the roads or putting in that light rail... so in the end... it is what it is
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:56 AM
 
500 posts, read 800,290 times
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I will certainly agree that light rail is a very effective transportation solution. When applied correctly. That line going from downtown Dallas up to Plano is very effective. It's a solution. I don't see that in this case.

As far as maintaining existing roads vs light rail costs, light rail will have maintenance costs as well, so that's not a selling point for me. A safety and time/commerce study would be more convincing.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:30 PM
 
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Would the proposed light rail be self-sustaining or would taxpayers have to subsidize operating losses and/or cash flow shortages?
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Texas
475 posts, read 971,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb4all View Post
Would the proposed light rail be self-sustaining or would taxpayers have to subsidize operating losses and/or cash flow shortages?
Well, VIA has always been subsidized right? Why should this be any different? By definition, public transportation usually has some public funding and ongoing subsidy. Of course, I am sure that there may be some examples where this is not the case, but in general, this is the norm.
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