H-E-B Delivery to Downtown Residents?

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Shock

I can't see them closing the street completely. Somehow they need to at least accomadate pedestrians and bicyclists.

Nope. HEB plan is to wall it off completely so it becomes part of their campus. No pedestrian or cycle access. For KW/Lavaca/Southtown residents to get to their "walkable" store, they'd have to walk an extra 1/4-1/2 mile around to the vehicle entrance on Chavez St. Many are opposed to this store because it's no more than a gas station/convenience store with lunch space, but more would tolerate that IF Main remained open to cyclists/pedestrians. That is not in HEB's plan.


For more reading:
$1 million offer for grocery is not the norm - San Antonio Express-News
H-E-B presses to close Main Avenue - San Antonio Express-News
King William opposes H-E-B’s request to close Main Avenue - The Downtown Blog
Dissecting H-E-B’s grocery store proposal - The Downtown Blog

[geargrinder70]

Originally Posted by Shock

A million dollars is chump change.

and only chumps would be in favor of it, no offense

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Shock

A lot of passionate comments I'm seeing about this and I don't understand why. But then again, building anything in SA always storms up some type of opposition and controversy.

Passion:
1. $1 Mil of tax payer money
2. Closing off a major street not only to vehicles but to ALL citizens who are not employees of the company, blocking all pedestrian and bicycle traffic as well
3. Cutting off a major artery into King William from Downtown
4. Because most DT/ST residents *want* a walkable grocery store, we don't want the city to get hoodwinked into this project which is NOT a grocery store
5. Because it'll fail as a store, since it's not serving its purpose, and they can say "we told you so" but now they have the land

[Shock]

Originally Posted by Chaka

Passion:
1. $1 Mil of tax payer money
2. Closing off a major street not only to vehicles but to ALL citizens who are not employees of the company, blocking all pedestrian and bicycle traffic as well
3. Cutting off a major artery into King William from Downtown
4. Because most DT/ST residents *want* a walkable grocery store, we don't want the city to get hoodwinked into this project which is NOT a grocery store
5. Because it'll fail as a store, since it's not serving its purpose, and they can say "we told you so" but now they have the land

So you have a problem with both the street closure and the store itself.
What about the many downtown residents who desire a store. Perhaps there is a reason why no proposals have been able to meet the square footage the city was originally looking for. We don't know all the details. It looks like a small grocery store, maybe too small but they are selling foods and produce you would see in a grocery store.
I don't know about the street closure, but I don't see a problem with a store there. Oh and it looks like a gas station too. I guess the gas station and parking take up a lot of space that could be for the store.

[Bo]

Originally Posted by Shock

What about the many downtown residents who desire a store.

Someone who works in the mayor's office is trying to find out if there are any people whose desire for a store exceeds their dislike for this plan.

Petition supports H-E-B store - The Downtown Blog

[ashbeeigh]

Originally Posted by Bo

Someone who works in the mayor's office is trying to find out if there are any people whose desire for a store exceeds their dislike for this plan.

Petition supports H-E-B store - The Downtown Blog

That article was the one I originally posted to start the conversation. Just fyi.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Shock

So you have a problem with both the street closure and the store itself.
What about the many downtown residents who desire a store. Perhaps there is a reason why no proposals have been able to meet the square footage the city was originally looking for. We don't know all the details. It looks like a small grocery store, maybe too small but they are selling foods and produce you would see in a grocery store.
I don't know about the street closure, but I don't see a problem with a store there. Oh and it looks like a gas station too. I guess the gas station and parking take up a lot of space that could be for the store.

Most of the details are out there and have been reviewed, unless they've intentionally been kept secret (and I'm sure some have).

I am a resident of the area this "store" is intended to serve. I have long been a huge proponent of multiple downtown grocery stores (one, in this location, will not serve all of downtown and Southtown as a walkable store, which is the whole point of urban living). I initially cheered and thought the closure of Main was fine and dandy, when I assumed it was to be a store with groceries - i.e. staples, produce, etc. and that it'd be accessible on foot or bike from the South. It is neither.

From the diagram and description (and discussions with HEB directly), it's clear it's *not* a grocery store. It's a lunch/prepared foods counter with about 6 shelves. if you've been to some of the other downtown "grocery" stores, you'll see the same thing (Hippos, Delivery Market, Main PLaza). Mostly they stock chips, snacks, sodas (tho Hippos had a decent wine selection) and a few odds and ends. Their intent is to sell the prepared foods from Central Market, with a few extras. Even Walgreens downtown has more shelf space devoted to non-produce grocery items than this proposal.

It's not about size. Plenty of cities have smaller urban stores, this isn't about creating something unheard of. The Trader Joe's is an ideal size for an urban store that WOULD get people from all over downtown/southtown and southside. It doesn't even need to be that big, if they removed the lunch/prepared foods counters and seating and focused only on groceries, it'd be more appealing. Imagine a Valero store, add in a fancy deli with stuff trucked down from Central Market, and that's this store. Downtown residents like to cook and need to buy REAL food, not just prepared foods, and we already have a ton of fabulous restaurants.

The concept of urban living involves walking and cycling. NOT driving. Elements of daily living within walking distance are key. This location is not an easy walk from the two main downtown residential areas (Vidorra and Vistana, though it will benefit from the future apartments at the old Univision). It *is* within easy walking distance of the 3rd major downtown residential area - Southtown, except that foot access will be cut off. As it's designed, it's for people driving down Cesear Chavez St, not people walking from Southtown or even downtown, and for HEB employees to have a place to eat on site.


HEB is asking the city to not only give them $1Mil, but also a main thoroughfare for their private campus, completely blocking access to tax paying residents.

Those opposing this plan have spent a great deal of time studying HEB's proposal, and are very very familiar with the details as well as the needs of long time urban residents. Most have long been in full support of the city's efforts to bring a store downtown, and many cheered HEB at first, until the proposal came to light.


I hate to say it, but I think the city needs to back off on this effort, and let the market work.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Bo

Someone who works in the mayor's office is trying to find out if there are any people whose desire for a store exceeds their dislike for this plan.

Petition supports H-E-B store - The Downtown Blog

The person works for SA2020 which, while a big plan for the mayor, is not actually his office. SA2020 | The Team

[BoerneMan]

The proposal from HEB is disappointing for many reasons, and Chaka has spelled them out clearly. I would go as far to say that this proposal is pathetic, and HEB and the city should be embarrassed to even be in discussions about something so small with taxpayer money at stake.

The city's study was flawed from the very beginning, in my opinion. I'm all for a store that is pedestrian friendly and serves the surrounding neighborhood, but why ignore something that could create economic development and draw people in from all over the city? If they are giving away taxpayer money, that's the bare minimum that should be required by all San Antonio residents. HEB should have focused on a store large enough to become its flagship store (think Whole Foods at 80,000 square feet in downtown Austin) with a restaurant/test kitchen concept (instead of separate as planned now) with underground or structured parking. The city could have required residential units be incorporated above the store. HEB could have incorporated new office space above the store as well. This is the type of development that would draw people in, including me from Boerne.

The plan as proposed is nothing more than a glorified Valero Corner Store, and this niche is already served by several small markets downtown. In my mind, HEB is using this for 1) to close Main Ave and 2) to cut Trader Joe's out of the downtown market. The $1 million is really nothing to them at the end of the day. They have many individual stores in this city that gross more than that per week (yes, I know grocery margins are small).

Just my two cents.

[chrisbohannon82]

The one reason I won't move downtown is the lack of amenities......a grocery store being one of the main issues. Walgreens does have non perishables, but they tend to be pricey anyways. I'm all for HEB moving downtown (or any other chain.....where are you Kroger & Randall's??) but they need to do it in respect to the current residents and closing main st is not wise plus they need to actually sell grocery items - not just pre-made. Like "Boerne" said above, it would be wiser to make a multi level building with a store at street level and either offices and/or apt living above and parking below.......of course, this would cost more money to set up too.