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Old 11-14-2007, 02:02 PM
JNA
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
243 posts, read 733,078 times
Reputation: 136

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I think the NFL would probably be easier to sell than MLB. MLB can be a tough sell and there are basically two factors in selling MLB to a city's fan base: winning and fan loyalty to a team and its players. Without one or both of these, it's hard to keep fans coming back every year for 81 home games.

With the way players are always moving around in the free agency market, building a loyal fan base can be difficult to build. SA has very loyal Spurs fans and it's due in large part to the core group of players with positive images that have been with the team for more than just 1 or 2 years.

As far as winning, it's pretty unlikely an expansion MLB team will be able to field a winning team anytime soon.

As far as the NFL, selling 8 home games (even though tickets are much pricier) is easier. NFL, like NASCAR and concerts, has an event feel. There are only a few games a year so people are willing to put out more money, drive further, etc. for these.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:34 PM
 
2,744 posts, read 6,086,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irnag View Post
Well, I think MLB would be a tough sell anywhere. MLB has become New York and Boston centric and the rest for the most part has been forgotten. I think that is why teams like the Marlins (with outstanding success) have been dying on the vine. I agree with the posters that minor league baseball works in SA and I think will work for years. There is a lot of history in the Missions and for that matter the Texas League. However, I think SA needs to pursue a pro football team. It would sell in SA. I will give you the Colts as a great example. Indianapolis is very similar in size to SA, no big D1 school in the town, (a red herring of an arguement) and may actually be a little smaller. The economy has been tough and we have lost a lot of industry. As an added dimension, the news media rails in about the brain drain in Indy. Plus Indianapolis is MUCH closer to Chicago than SA is to Dallas and for that matter Cincy and St Louis as well. But guess what, the Colts are #1 in the city and have been for a long time before the Super Bowl run. There are tons of Bear fans here, but the Colts have always been able to draw well because Bear fans like FOOTBALL and will go to the game. Downtown Indy was dead before the Colts came to town and it has prospered since. Downtown SA is ahead of Indy in this regard, and a football team would be outstanding if the team is placed downtown. It would take an owner, the likes of Al Davis that can stand up and challenge the NFL and believe in the city. I thought Red McCombs was going to do it and then Tom Benson. They may have not worked out, but you never know, there are a number of lousy teams out there that may be lured.
Indy is much smaller than San Antonio.

Indy core (Marion county)400 sq miles 790,000
SA core 400 sq miles nearly 1.4 million.

San Antonio's urban area is much bigger and more dense.Maybe on a national level they both are somewhat equal.Metro area San Antonio a few hundred thousand bigger.TV market wise Indy is bigger due to being the only major city in the state.
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:52 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
927 posts, read 1,384,397 times
Reputation: 482
Default The next step

Quote:
Originally Posted by raider042678 View Post
Can we PLEASE get back on topic?

I read this post for views on MLB in San Antonio. I hate reading two pages of back and forth arguing.

Anyway, like I said in my earlier post, I would prefer minor league baseball in this city rather than MLB. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the current stadium, but I would love if the Missions could get a new stadium built with an "old-timey" brick look but modern feel, maybe downtown. Just me dreaming...
If you're going to build a new stadium for a bush league team why not invest a few hundred million more and go ahead and build a MLB stadium? You would get a much better return on your investment because of a perceived superior quality of product on the field. This is because people would rather pay to see the best rather than a bunch of minor leaguers. Additionally, why not think big and go for the best? As has been adequately discussed on this forum San Antonio is clearly big enough to support MLB. A MLB team placed in SA would be embraced much like the Spurs have been. With a core following along with other fans. Enough to provide an adequate and supportive fanbase that's for sure.

I just think that it would be redundant and even counterproductive to invest money in a new stadium for a bush league team when the benefits of building a major league stadium would be just as obtainable.
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:11 AM
 
Location: I-35
1,806 posts, read 4,294,399 times
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As long as the Rangers and Astros are in TX The SA Padres will never happen with a stadium in New Bransfuels or the Outlet Mall Stadium in San Marcos. YEA RIGHT.
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:32 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX (78201)
604 posts, read 1,865,144 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanshirt View Post
"This metro area crap" is actually much more significant than you think. In effect, SA is not the 7th largest city in the US (and I wish people would stop saying that like it really means something), its actually the 28th largest city.

I don't know where you got that, but San Antonio is the 7th largest city in the US and climbing. We're also the 3rd fastest growing city, only behind LA and New York.

Top 10 Largest US cities (by population, by 2006)
1) New York
2) LA
3) Chicago
4) Houston
5&6) Phoenix and Philadelphia (I don't remember which is bigger)
7) San Antonio
8) San Diego
9) Dallas
10) San Jose

City Mayors: Mayors running the world's cities
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:36 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX (78201)
604 posts, read 1,865,144 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by bresilhac View Post
If you're going to build a new stadium for a bush league team why not invest a few hundred million more and go ahead and build a MLB stadium? You would get a much better return on your investment because of a perceived superior quality of product on the field. This is because people would rather pay to see the best rather than a bunch of minor leaguers. Additionally, why not think big and go for the best? As has been adequately discussed on this forum San Antonio is clearly big enough to support MLB. A MLB team placed in SA would be embraced much like the Spurs have been. With a core following along with other fans. Enough to provide an adequate and supportive fanbase that's for sure.

I just think that it would be redundant and even counterproductive to invest money in a new stadium for a bush league team when the benefits of building a major league stadium would be just as obtainable.

I definately agree with you. I think SA would embrace any team that we got, just like the Spurs. In fact, weren't there always a good turn out to the Saints games in 05? I think everyone felt like that year, for a year, we unofficially had a "San Antonio Saints" football team. Just kind of unoffically, and in the back of our minds...
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 3,390,382 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnag View Post
Well, I think MLB would be a tough sell anywhere. MLB has become New York and Boston centric and the rest for the most part has been forgotten. I think that is why teams like the Marlins (with outstanding success) have been dying on the vine. I agree with the posters that minor league baseball works in SA and I think will work for years. There is a lot of history in the Missions and for that matter the Texas League. However, I think SA needs to pursue a pro football team. It would sell in SA. I will give you the Colts as a great example. Indianapolis is very similar in size to SA, no big D1 school in the town, (a red herring of an arguement) and may actually be a little smaller. The economy has been tough and we have lost a lot of industry. As an added dimension, the news media rails in about the brain drain in Indy. Plus Indianapolis is MUCH closer to Chicago than SA is to Dallas and for that matter Cincy and St Louis as well. But guess what, the Colts are #1 in the city and have been for a long time before the Super Bowl run. There are tons of Bear fans here, but the Colts have always been able to draw well because Bear fans like FOOTBALL and will go to the game. Downtown Indy was dead before the Colts came to town and it has prospered since. Downtown SA is ahead of Indy in this regard, and a football team would be outstanding if the team is placed downtown. It would take an owner, the likes of Al Davis that can stand up and challenge the NFL and believe in the city. I thought Red McCombs was going to do it and then Tom Benson. They may have not worked out, but you never know, there are a number of lousy teams out there that may be lured.
SA doesn't have an NFL-ready stadium. The Alamodome isn't NFL-ready anymore. I am sure one would be built if a team were to move to SA (won't be the Saints, Raiders, or even Jacksonville though).
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Old 11-17-2007, 07:45 PM
 
925 posts, read 1,216,952 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
SA doesn't have an NFL-ready stadium. The Alamodome isn't NFL-ready anymore. I am sure one would be built if a team were to move to SA (won't be the Saints, Raiders, or even Jacksonville though).
Well, technically the Alamodome is NFL ready, that's why NFL games were played in it in 2005. The Alamodome however isn't up to NFL standards in terms of box suites, that's basically the only draw back the Alamodome has and even if all suites were built (only half are now) it still wouldn't be enough. Any relocation to the Alamodome would be temporary and any team moving here would have to be assured it was on the condition that a new stadium be built.

As for your using opinion as fact, with exception to the Raiders those two other teams are really good relocation opinions for SA. And are definitely not a "no way no how" for San Antonio.
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Texas
2,703 posts, read 3,390,382 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniac View Post
Well, technically the Alamodome is NFL ready, that's why NFL games were played in it in 2005. The Alamodome however isn't up to NFL standards in terms of box suites, that's basically the only draw back the Alamodome has and even if all suites were built (only half are now) it still wouldn't be enough. Any relocation to the Alamodome would be temporary and any team moving here would have to be assured it was on the condition that a new stadium be built.
That isn't all. The NFL put in HD televisions in all stadiums, among other things this year. The NFL uses those HD-sets for instant replay, etc.

Quote:
As for your using opinion as fact, with exception to the Raiders those two other teams are really good relocation opinions for SA. And are definitely not a "no way no how" for San Antonio.
No. The Saints have sold out completely this season (suites and all) and have a really bright future ahead in New Orleans. They are a lock there. The Jaguars are the only ones that I could see leaving, but their metro area is growing, so their fan base is, too. They need to stop the blackouts (had two this year), but even Atlanta had a blackout this year.
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Old 11-18-2007, 02:41 PM
 
925 posts, read 1,216,952 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerilla View Post
That isn't all. The NFL put in HD televisions in all stadiums, among other things this year. The NFL uses those HD-sets for instant replay, etc.
The Alamodome has HD televisions. But even if it didn't, I doubt that would be a hindrance to getting an NFL team as it wouldn't be too difficult to install them.



Quote:
No. The Saints have sold out completely this season (suites and all) and have a really bright future ahead in New Orleans. They are a lock there. The Jaguars are the only ones that I could see leaving, but their metro area is growing, so their fan base is, too. They need to stop the blackouts (had two this year), but even Atlanta had a blackout this year.
No one knows what future the Saints have in New Orleans, firstly. Second, how popular and number of suites sold isn't some voucher for "never going to leave." Tom Benson still wants a new stadium, and if he doesn't get it, he will move the team. The Sacramento Kings have the longest sell out streak in the NBA, there club is terrible this year and they still sell out. There metropolitan area is growing very well, their economy is very good. That all means jack when it comes to the Kings and the fact that they can't get a new arena. Relocation of the Kings is a real possibly and sadly, a very real probability. It would seem the only thing keeping them from going to Las Vegas is the NBA's unwillingness to put a team there until all NBA games are taken off gambling books. The Jaguars have sluggish attendance, bad to mediocre sponsorship and are a small market to begin with so-so population growth. Amazingly, they covered/eliminated about 10,000 seats so that they could reduce blackouts but they still occur. It's not a great situation there and to say there is no chance for relocation by either current owner or any future owner is foolish.
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