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Old 12-21-2013, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Brentwood
818 posts, read 981,550 times
Reputation: 1380

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
This was not a routine traffic stop because routine traffic stops do not have the person being pulled over exit their vehicle on their own accord and try to walk away. Cpl. Carter had to ask Redus to return to his truck and place his hands on them, which he did.

Had Redus remained in his vehicle then AHPD would have arrived on scene to conduct the field sobriety tests. It could have ended on a more routine note.

Instead Redus freaked when the cuffs came out and fought the law and lost.

As far as the shooting consider this was one made during a struggle and was not target practice in pristine conditions. Officers and others are taught to shoot center mass. It is doubtful that officer was aiming all over the place but holding his weapon as steadily as possible and that the actor was the one moving about instead of standing still and complying.
Actually, that is a fairly routine traffic stop.

If the shooting was happening while they were still struggling, that makes it even worse that the spread was that bad. By all accounts, the two were separated at that point and the cop drew his weapon which caused the student to sarcastically ask if the cop was actually going to shoot him. If the student was charging the cop as some here have alleged, unless this kid was high on PCP, that first shot would have been enough to stop him from charging, even if it was the one that missed.

I served in the military, during time of war and I have had extensive weapons training in a variety of conditions. While I am speaking for only myself and my own abilities, I think my perspective is the perspective of most people that are properly trained to use weapons. Firing six shots, at close range and hitting once in the knee, once in the eye and missing once altogether does not sound like that was an officer that should be handling a weapon.

Again, it shouldn't have taken more than one bullet if it even took that many, to de-escalate that situation.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:05 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 5,897,807 times
Reputation: 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray View Post
Actually, that is a fairly routine traffic stop.

If the shooting was happening while they were still struggling, that makes it even worse that the spread was that bad. By all accounts, the two were separated at that point and the cop drew his weapon which caused the student to sarcastically ask if the cop was actually going to shoot him. If the student was charging the cop as some here have alleged, unless this kid was high on PCP, that first shot would have been enough to stop him from charging, even if it was the one that missed.

I served in the military, during time of war and I have had extensive weapons training in a variety of conditions. While I am speaking for only myself and my own abilities, I think my perspective is the perspective of most people that are properly trained to use weapons. Firing six shots, at close range and hitting once in the knee, once in the eye and missing once altogether does not sound like that was an officer that should be handling a weapon.

Again, it shouldn't have taken more than one bullet if it even took that many, to de-escalate that situation.
Aiming at center mass then firing to stop a threat is usually not going to translate to firing one single shot then pausing to see if the threat has been stopped.

It is usually going to be a series of shots because it happens so fast. Pausing after one shot and thinking it is enough will cost you your life if it was not enough to stop the threat.

Firing six shots can happen so quick if the object is to keep firing until they stop and they are coming at you at the same time.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Brentwood
818 posts, read 981,550 times
Reputation: 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merovee View Post
Aiming at center mass then firing to stop a threat is usually not going to translate to firing one single shot then pausing to see if the threat has been stopped.

It is usually going to be a series of shots because it happens so fast. Pausing after one shot and thinking it is enough will cost you your life if it was not enough to stop the threat.

Firing six shots can happen so quick if the object is to keep firing until they stop and they are coming at you at the same time.
You keep using verbiage like 'fire at center mass' and 'the actor' to bolster the opinions you are stating, as though you have law enforcement training. I find this comical. Do you actually have law enforcement training?

I can't speak for police training but I would think any training that suggested more force than necessary to de-escalate or control a situation would be a recipe for disaster. Is there a reasonable person on this planet that thinks it takes six bullets from a .40 caliber weapon to subdue a 145 pound person? That is just delusional.

And yes, I expect a person to have complete control of their mental condition and complete awareness of the situation they're in before they pull a weapon and begin shooting. I would not accept a response along the lines of 'in the heat of the moment I lost control' from someone that has allegedly been trained in how to handle these types of situations. That is not an excuse to commit murder.

There is a difference between someone feeling their life is in danger and someone losing control of a situation. That student was not trying to kill the officer, he was trying to get to his apartment and avoid the officer and an apparent arrest. If the cop was unable to control the situation, one of his options would have been to allow the student to go to his apartment and wait for backup. The cop did not chose that option, he chose murder.

Then there is this about the cop...

According to the Express-News, people who know the officer described him as 'mean.'

'He was mean,' Hugo Bustillos, a former neighbor, said. Bustillos lived above Carter's apartment for about a year. He said Carter also had run-ins with at least one other tenant over his dog before he moved away last year.

'He exaggerated a lot,' Bustillos said. 'He put a lot of false statements on us with our landlord,' Bustillos said.

'He also made trouble for someone else and got into an argument with' management.


And this about the student...

The student's family said they did not believe the account given by the officer responsible for his death.

Carter claimed he shot Robert Cameron Redus after the 23-year-old beat him with his own baton after being stopped for driving erratically. But the family said he was never aggressive or confrontational.

'Our family does not believe the officer’s report ... For him to confront a police officer would be completely out of his character', parents Mickey and Valerie Redus said.


and yet so many people here still want to put their trust in the cop first. Amazing...
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:58 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,110 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilGar View Post
Do the SAPD officers leave behind non lethal devices when on a food run?

Do their dash cameras conveniently fall off the dash in inclement weather?

A baton/Asp is a non/less lethal devise and agencies dictate what you may and may not carry. Dash cams fail all the time. Your statements says more about your bias and ignorance than problems with Law Enforcement
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:02 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,110 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray View Post
You keep using verbiage like 'fire at center mass' and 'the actor' to bolster the opinions you are stating, as though you have law enforcement training. I find this comical. Do you actually have law enforcement training?

I can't speak for police training but I would think any training that suggested more force than necessary to de-escalate or control a situation would be a recipe for disaster. Is there a reasonable person on this planet that thinks it takes six bullets from a .40 caliber weapon to subdue a 145 pound person? That is just delusional.

And yes, I expect a person to have complete control of their mental condition and complete awareness of the situation they're in before they pull a weapon and begin shooting. I would not accept a response along the lines of 'in the heat of the moment I lost control' from someone that has allegedly been trained in how to handle these types of situations. That is not an excuse to commit murder.

There is a difference between someone feeling their life is in danger and someone losing control of a situation. That student was not trying to kill the officer, he was trying to get to his apartment and avoid the officer and an apparent arrest. If the cop was unable to control the situation, one of his options would have been to allow the student to go to his apartment and wait for backup. The cop did not chose that option, he chose murder.

..
I have plenty of Law Enforcement and Military training and experience. The only thing you know is how you feel.

The things you are saying certainly demonstrate how you feel but they also prove you don't have much knowledge in the subject.

There is no way around the fact that you are flat out wrong about how violent shootings go down. You cant even begin to imagine what it is like and yet you are sure you know what you are talking about...you don't.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:05 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,110 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray View Post
Actually, that is a fairly routine traffic stop.

If the shooting was happening while they were still struggling, that makes it even worse that the spread was that bad. By all accounts, the two were separated at that point and the cop drew his weapon which caused the student to sarcastically ask if the cop was actually going to shoot him. If the student was charging the cop as some here have alleged, unless this kid was high on PCP, that first shot would have been enough to stop him from charging, even if it was the one that missed.

I served in the military, during time of war and I have had extensive weapons training in a variety of conditions. While I am speaking for only myself and my own abilities, I think my perspective is the perspective of most people that are properly trained to use weapons. Firing six shots, at close range and hitting once in the knee, once in the eye and missing once altogether does not sound like that was an officer that should be handling a weapon.

Again, it shouldn't have taken more than one bullet if it even took that many, to de-escalate that situation.
You have never been in a close quarters firefight. You dont know what you are talking about. You and what you think about your abilities dont mean squat the first time it goes down and until you have been there, you are just a blowhard.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:06 AM
 
Location: NW San Antonio
1,074 posts, read 1,582,514 times
Reputation: 683
Y'all are still talking bout this?! Who cares it was almost a month ago. I do know not to grab at their waist though. Especially when I am drunk. We should be more concerned with the passing of Officer Deckard.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: the 50s and the 60s
834 posts, read 1,791,758 times
Reputation: 1542
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this is from an Incarnate Word student -

"From what I saw, Cameron was definitely not being cooperative.

Anything but," Carnett, 21, said of the Dec. 6 shooting in the parking lot of an apartment complex north of campus.

"Cameron was definitely resisting arrest

and making it very difficult for the officer and striking him, or at least attempting to strike him."
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Witness: Student, officer fought before shooting - San Antonio Express-News
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Brentwood
818 posts, read 981,550 times
Reputation: 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
You have never been in a close quarters firefight. You dont know what you are talking about. You and what you think about your abilities dont mean squat the first time it goes down and until you have been there, you are just a blowhard.
You talk a lot yourself. Have you ever been in a close quarters firefight or are you just relating statements made by those that have? Have you ever actually fired your weapon outside of a training exercise?

I am sure you are going to answer my questions and say that you have. I am sure this is exactly why I am going to refer back to the thread about trusting cops, because I am pretty sure you haven't.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Brentwood
818 posts, read 981,550 times
Reputation: 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by *mud* View Post
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this is from an Incarnate Word student -

"From what I saw, Cameron was definitely not being cooperative.

Anything but," Carnett, 21, said of the Dec. 6 shooting in the parking lot of an apartment complex north of campus.

"Cameron was definitely resisting arrest

and making it very difficult for the officer and striking him, or at least attempting to strike him."
.
.
Witness: Student, officer fought before shooting - San Antonio Express-News
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Now this is fair to add to the discussion and because I am not going to pay for exclusive EN content, I didn't read this.

I still don't think this justifies murder and I still think the officer had other options than deadly force.
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