Toll Lanes in SAT, just say NO (Houston, Dallas: credit, school district)

[GABESTA535]

Toll lanes are necessary. Taxpayers can no longer subsidize suburban sprawl. It's better to live close to your job than in a McMansion over an hour away

[staunchcharacter]

Whether most like it or not, tolls are going to happen. It's time to accept it and try to find a way to live within what the toll-per-mile will likely be.

One way or the other, San Antonio moves forward

[&heart]

My firm does a lot of work in Houston and sends me over there pretty frequently. It puzzles me how that city has 10-16 lane highways plus their third loop being built while SA can't even get its current highways built to adequate size. I know Houston is much, much bigger but why does the state think that four-lane highways cut it in this city? 1604 is a joke and needs more capacity to handle all the traffic it has. Now we have 281 being expanded, only to look like 1604 does now with a toll lane in the middle. Does the state honestly think this is enough? Growth north of 1604 is not stopping anytime soon. Same thing with I10. Adding just one toll lane in the median is simply not enough.

SA, I hope you all realize that you're getting the short-end of the stick, a very short end at that.

[Shock]

Originally Posted by &heart

My firm does a lot of work in Houston and sends me over there pretty frequently. It puzzles me how that city has 10-16 lane highways plus their third loop being built while SA can't even get its current highways built to adequate size. I know Houston is much, much bigger but why does the state think that four-lane highways cut it in this city? 1604 is a joke and needs more capacity to handle all the traffic it has. Now we have 281 being expanded, only to look like 1604 does now with a toll lane in the middle. Does the state honestly think this is enough? Growth north of 1604 is not stopping anytime soon. Same thing with I10. Adding just one toll lane in the median is simply not enough.

SA, I hope you all realize that you're getting the short-end of the stick, a very short end at that.

agreed, i wonder how can we get the state to fork over more money to roads in san antonio.

right now i imagine txdot is doing the best with what the city is given. there doesn't seem to be a lot of room to expand 281 north of 1604 though than what is being proposed without demolishing several buildings. the good thing about 281 north is that blanco and bulverde run parallel to 281 north (and they were recently widened) so plenty of options to get home. most of the traffic north of 1604 from what i see is people just trying to get home, or to the stone oak shopping center.

for the money SA gets, our freeways aren't too terrible. 410 and i-10 are 10 lanes too where they need to be. 1604 will be next after 281 and i-10.

[Quattro72]

So they are just going to add one lane in the middle? That's called HOV, not toll and if you get stuck behind a slow driver, then what?

I don't understand why they can't widen the roads by adding more lanes. There is room both on 1604 and 281. There are even parts of 1604 where the access road is 3 lanes while 1604 is 2 lane. That makes no sense.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by Quattro72

So they are just going to add one lane in the middle? That's called HOV, not toll and if you get stuck behind a slow driver, then what?

I don't understand why they can't widen the roads by adding more lanes. There is room both on 1604 and 281. There are even parts of 1604 where the access road is 3 lanes while 1604 is 2 lane. That makes no sense.

Did you read the plans?

[&heart]

Originally Posted by Shock

agreed, i wonder how can we get the state to fork over more money to roads in san antonio.

right now i imagine txdot is doing the best with what the city is given. there doesn't seem to be a lot of room to expand 281 north of 1604 though than what is being proposed without demolishing several buildings. the good thing about 281 north is that blanco and bulverde run parallel to 281 north (and they were recently widened) so plenty of options to get home. most of the traffic north of 1604 from what i see is people just trying to get home, or to the stone oak shopping center.

for the money SA gets, our freeways aren't too terrible. 410 and i-10 are 10 lanes too where they need to be. 1604 will be next after 281 and i-10.

Not at all! The city is actually blessed to have the extensive system it has. It needs to continue having good, adaquete-size highways. Six lanes just don't cut it.

As for 281, designing it north of 1604 larger than what is proposed is a great opportunity to showcase some great civil engineering. But you're right, the state is doing the best they can with what they have.

[Merovee]

Originally Posted by GABESTA535

Toll lanes are necessary. Taxpayers can no longer subsidize suburban sprawl. It's better to live close to your job than in a McMansion over an hour away

The city has a symbiotic relationship with its suburbs and the health of one affects the other. We need to encourage density but not at the expense of the suburbs. Taxpayers should subsidize better roads for both sectors instead of paying for private firms to profit from road tolls which helps neither the city or its suburbs but some shady company in bed with state administrators.

[TXStrat]

Here is the main problem I have with the proposed toll lanes. They represent the latest example of the San Antonio city government seeking to tax/charge/profit from/exploit those living outside the city limits. Look at the proposed locations. On I-10 from 1604/La Cantera west to Ralph Fair Rd. Ralph Fair road is almost exactly on the San Antonio city limits. So, the SA City Council would be sticking people that live north of Ralph Fair road with the highest degree of tolls. Same thing for proposed location of the 281 toll lanes. Anyone living on the other side of the Comal county line would be footing the majority of the toll burden. This is a recurrent problem with the city of San Antonio. See the recent Pre-K for SA initiative. This plan was funded through an increase in sales tax in the city of SA. The problem is, the sales tax increases also applied to things like SAWS water bills and CPS energy bills. The problem with this being there were many, many people that were forced into paying this additional tax with no vote or no say on the SA city council because they live outside the city limits. So, not only did those in question experience taxation without representation, they are also not eligible to participate in the programs they are funding through their tax contributions. Small potatoes, granted, but it speaks directly to the recurrent trend in this city to stick those living outside the city limits with the bill for things inside the city.

[Azure110]

Where does the money from the proposed toll roads go to? I am assuming there is profit to be made from this?