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Old 03-01-2014, 02:51 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,273 times
Reputation: 1009

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs View Post
It's as if my husband wrote this! LOL!

But if you could make money and fill a quota by doing that, they would.

It's all about the money, no matter how dangerous the situation, someone thinks it's a good idea to do this.
Traffic enforcement is a proven way to reduce injuries and fatalities on average using large data sets.

You being convinced a particular method is dangerous doesn't make it so. You would be amazed how much data the Police collect. Years upon years, every stretch of road, every intersection. When the Police increase enforcement at a particular place, the impact is almost always drastic.

We tend to only believe what we see or what happens to us, but that doesn't make for a truth, it just makes for our point of view. It is observational bias. But if we have a data set of years and many thousands or more occurrences, that is how we can build a model that shows if your feelings (anyones feeling) are valid or just wrong conclusions, no matter how deeply held.

So, lets say a 2 day enforcement campaign that involves a man on the bridge with a radar gun and 10 units decreased injuries and accidents 25% over a three month period...that invalidates your opinion. It may not change how you feel at all but when we put the hard numbers on the table, no one will be interested in how you feel anymore, because we have replaced one idea with a better one and can prove it. (I don't know what the numbers are, but they exist somewhere and are almost always available to the public, I am just showing how it works and why it is done)

BTW, I know my post sounds harsh, and personal, please don't take it that way, I am just expressing why things are done and using your post and a foil for that. Again, I am just being blunt but it isn't against you.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:54 PM
 
342 posts, read 328,853 times
Reputation: 292
I actually wish coppers would actually enforce parking laws within subdivisions within the cities.

But thats another story.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:00 PM
 
874 posts, read 1,157,050 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
I not going to address or argue how you feel about it but I am going to give you some facts.

Police patrols in Texas are exempt, by written statute, from all speed limits. Yes, that means they can drive 200 MPH through an active school zone (if you want to use an absurd example) What doesn't change, is they are always liable for their actions and an agencies policies may restrict certain actions.

So, you, like so many, who say "Such and such is illegal..." you may wish it was but it isn't. Again, just a fact. Use it however you wish but now you know something you didn't.

The same for use, or lack of, lights and sirens. There are not only legitimate reasons for not using lights and sirens, but Police are trained to not use them sometimes. There are so many reasons to get someplace in a hurry and silent. In many cases turning on lights and/or sirens will slow you down.
What you say may well be true, but this is abused so incredibly often that public perception is that there is zero internal enforcement or policing of ones own. It is so unfortunate that something horrible has to happen before there are any consequences for the abuse. I cite the following link as an example. Perhaps if corrective action had been taken, this entire event where everyone lost, could have been prevented.

Ex-cop is handed15 years in prison - San Antonio Express-News
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Boerne, Texas
309 posts, read 462,912 times
Reputation: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
First of all, there is a logical issue well beyond how you think it does or would go down. At night, no one has a clue if it is a marked or unmarked car, in the day, there are very few situations where you would know that either. A marked car behind you with lights and sirens, in particular a slick top, which is very common, is indistinguishable from an unmarked car.

Second, fine, don't pull over. Call 911 and follow their instructions. Your, or anyone elses hesitation doesn't change the fact how the situation will end. There will be a traffic stop one way or another once a traffic stop has been initiated.

Every single time that I have been pulled over, I passed the police vehicle and have been able to clearly determine that it was a marked vehicle, day or night. I was either traveling the opposite direction on a roadway or the police vehicle was hidden over a hill, behind a barricade, etc., but still very much visible once you come upon it. I can understand your comment when getting pulled over by a police vehicle that approaches from behind, but this simply hasn't happened to me.

Too many instances nationally and in Texas of people being pulled over by fake police cars that look like the "stealth" police vehicles in San Antonio, only to be robbed, raped, etc. It's just not worth it for the police or the public. Why have these vehicles only come into circulation in such a big way in the past 10 years?

Last edited by BoerneMan; 03-01-2014 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:19 PM
 
342 posts, read 328,853 times
Reputation: 292
If I recall the COSA and hte SAPD stated the unmarked cars were initially used to combat road rage issues.

I'm not exactly sure when they decided to start using them for traffic (speeding) procedures though, as thats not how it was 'sold' to the public initially.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:21 PM
 
5,622 posts, read 6,405,999 times
Reputation: 3593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
I not going to address or argue how you feel about it but I am going to give you some facts.

Police patrols in Texas are exempt, by written statute, from all speed limits. Yes, that means they can drive 200 MPH through an active school zone (if you want to use an absurd example) What doesn't change, is they are always liable for their actions and an agencies policies may restrict certain actions.

So, you, like so many, who say "Such and such is illegal..." you may wish it was but it isn't. Again, just a fact. Use it however you wish but now you know something you didn't.

The same for use, or lack of, lights and sirens. There are not only legitimate reasons for not using lights and sirens, but Police are trained to not use them sometimes. There are so many reasons to get someplace in a hurry and silent. In many cases turning on lights and/or sirens will slow you down.
Are they exempt from using turn signals too? See that a lot.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:47 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,105,449 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by staunchcharacter View Post
Ah, but who polices SAPD speed infringement? Certainly not their own. The blue shield is alive and well.

In my hood, police constantly run red lights without lights or sirens, go 10+ MPH over the speed limit and don't seem to think how dangerous or simply illegal that is.

I wonder if it will take a cop hitting and killing someone for them to obey traffic laws, just as citizens are supposed to.
Maybe if you were little better aware of the laws in Texas, you'd know that law enforcement officer are exempt from the transportation code while on duty...
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
8,400 posts, read 20,105,449 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybolt View Post
What you say may well be true, but this is abused so incredibly often that public perception is that there is zero internal enforcement or policing of ones own. It is so unfortunate that something horrible has to happen before there are any consequences for the abuse. I cite the following link as an example. Perhaps if corrective action had been taken, this entire event where everyone lost, could have been prevented.

Ex-cop is handed15 years in prison - San Antonio Express-News
Wait, people are complaining about the police citing citizens for breaking the law, but they want them to enforce the same laws for themselves (even though the are exempt)?

Oh, the hypocrisy!
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:02 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,273 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybolt View Post
What you say may well be true, but this is abused so incredibly often that public perception is that there is zero internal enforcement or policing of ones own. It is so unfortunate that something horrible has to happen before there are any consequences for the abuse. I cite the following link as an example. Perhaps if corrective action had been taken, this entire event where everyone lost, could have been prevented.

Ex-cop is handed15 years in prison - San Antonio Express-News
While it is a tragedy, and no amount of statistics matter if it happens to you, if you get to play the "look at this" card to prove your point...so do I

There are about 1 million law enforcement officers in this country that make hundreds of thousands of contact with people each and every day. The frequency of egregious mistakes made is anomalous. The frequency of willful transgressions is even smaller.

You have a much higher chance (magnitudes of order actually) of being killed in a car crash today than falling victim to a rogue cop. Yet it is the police, practicing statistically vetted traffic enforcement, under the control of the electorate you get to pick, that you have the problem with.

Heck, you are actually more likely to die in a fire, or drown, or die in a fall, be poisoned, or kill yourself...all today, than you are to be injured by a derelict cop.

Statistically speaking, given the massive volume of encounters police have with people each day, it is one of our better functioning systems.

So yes, you can find headlines about bad cops who do bad things. That is why they are headlines, it is still anomalous. Again if you get to point out the few that do to prove your point, I get to point out the millions that don't to prove mine.

...oh, one more thing, statistically speaking, and yes, per capita, YOU are far more likely to commit the exact thing you fear from the Police and the fact you can find stories of bad cops getting punished is further proof the system works.

Your perception is your own, even if it shared by others.
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Old 03-01-2014, 05:06 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,273 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastexan View Post
If I recall the COSA and hte SAPD stated the unmarked cars were initially used to combat road rage issues.

I'm not exactly sure when they decided to start using them for traffic (speeding) procedures though, as thats not how it was 'sold' to the public initially.
Aggressive driving.

That is the term and the purpose. That would include speeding under many circumstances. Nothing changed.

Heck, SAPD goes on TV and says where they will be doing enforcement and then shows, on TV, the undercover cars they are using.
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