Moving into the Quarry at Iron Mountain (San Antonio, Canyon: environment, loan)

[mastercone]

I don't disagree that builders are now saving trees in these neighborhoods but your post suggests that KB Homes is cutting the path(no pun intended) for aesthetics in neighborhoods when they are actually doing it because they have no choice. If the city and county would have only caught on to this problem BEFORE a few dozen neighborhoods had been built, we wouldn't these eyesores pockmarked throughout the city that are reminiscient of public housing projects.

If you'll check, any subdivision that was platted starting in 2005 is required to have a certain amount of trees and a certain percentage of greenbelt set aside for each and every development. If I remember correctly, the City of San Antonio implemented this development rule(in both San Antonio & the ETJ) to stop developers from simply mowing down hundreds of acres of trees which got in the way of their race to build neighborhoods. This was done because ALL of the cookie cutter developers, with KB Homes leading the entire pack, were building neighborhoods without ANY trees.

Originally Posted by banker

......Many people do not realize that KB is not like Pulte, Medallion and others that cut down every tree while developing the neighborhood. Fact is - they only cut down the trees where the slab and underground utilities go......It will look nice. As a resident of the Quarry - I am pleased that KB went out of their way to keep as many of the original oaks as possible. Some are very large in fact and required careful planning to keep them - especially in the front yards of some of the houses on Ashbury Bay.

[banker]

Originally Posted by mastercone

I don't disagree that builders are now saving trees in these neighborhoods but your post suggests that KB Homes is cutting the path(no pun intended) for aesthetics in neighborhoods when they are actually doing it because they have no choice. If the city and county would have only caught on to this problem BEFORE a few dozen neighborhoods had been built, we wouldn't these eyesores pockmarked throughout the city that are reminiscient of public housing projects.

If you'll check, any subdivision that was platted starting in 2005 is required to have a certain amount of trees and a certain percentage of greenbelt set aside for each and every development. If I remember correctly, the City of San Antonio implemented this development rule(in both San Antonio & the ETJ) to stop developers from simply mowing down hundreds of acres of trees which got in the way of their race to build neighborhoods. This was done because ALL of the cookie cutter developers, with KB Homes leading the entire pack, were building neighborhoods without ANY trees.

True. But every day I drive by the horrible Pulte neighborhood at Stone Oak and 281 to see a neighborhood that was developed after 2005 - yet Pulte mowed down every tree on that hill (across from Target) creating a horrid barren landscape. The reason they could do this? They were grandfathered under the previous ordinance. They could have done the right thing...but didn't. The same applies to my neighborhood. KB had the land prior to the ordinance and could have mowed down all the trees just like Pulte did at Encino Ridge - but they didn't.

I for one applaud any builder that will go out of their way to save trees - especially if the land was grandfathered...

[playmaker7206]

Originally Posted by banker

I did a little checking on this one...and it seems that you have jumped to a wrong conclusion. First - as was stated above, the Estate homes are 60' wide foot prints. Secondly - the home mentioned above was offset to the left to avoid cutting down a cluster of live oaks in the front yard. If KB had centered the house on the lot - the driveway would have required the cluster of oaks be cut down. Many people do not realize that KB is not like Pulte, Medallion and others that cut down every tree while developing the neighborhood. Fact is - they only cut down the trees where the slab and underground utilities go. So - while you don't like the fact that the home is on the left side fo the lot...it will help long term as it keeps native trees in the front yard of this home. Also - the lots are 75' wide. So if you have a five foot easement on the left of the home, a 40' wide home - that leaves 25' on the right of the home...not 40' as you stated above.

It will look nice. As a resident of the Quarry - I am pleased that KB went out of their way to keep as many of the original oaks as possible. Some are very large in fact and required careful planning to keep them - especially in the front yards of some of the houses on Ashbury Bay.

Actually my conclusion is fact based and not based on the KB employees. Who ever you checked with is also wrong, or feeding you wrong information. It seems as if you have been drinking too much KB Kool-Aid. These two estate homes mentioned are 70' in width because they have 3 car garages. The home being built is a 40' width.

When it comes to width of the lot size mentioned you were told incorrect information on this too. The lot at 19246 Boltmore Bay is actually 81' wide. All lot sizes are slightly different, and most homes on Boltmore Bay are 80' wide. Some homes in this neighborhood are as narrow as 42" wide in the front. Example, a pie shape cul-d-sac lot.

Lets do the math: If you have a 5' easement on the left of the home, a 40' wide home, that leaves 36' to right of the home to the fence line, and a 42' width between the house next door. 19242 Boltmore Bay has 6' spacing to the fence line. You can almost fit two of these houses on these lots.

If you want the truth, just ask me next time.

[joe123456]

I have to agree with playmaker - KB didn't go out of there way with the lot in question. They stopped selling the more expensive lines and therefore are building the 40' homes anywhere they can.

Although most people have a problem with developers mowing down trees, I personally don't mind it as long as they plant trees to make up for some of the ones chopped down. Most areas of San Antonio you don't want a tree right next to your slab, because it can create foundation problems.

Originally Posted by playmaker7206

Actually my conclusion is fact based and not based on the KB employees. Who ever you checked with is also wrong, or feeding you wrong information. It seems as if you have been drinking too much KB Kool-Aid. These two estate homes mentioned are 70' in width because they have 3 car garages. The home being built is a 40' width.

When it comes to width of the lot size mentioned you were told incorrect information on this too. The lot at 19246 Boltmore Bay is actually 81' wide. All lot sizes are slightly different, and most homes on Boltmore Bay are 80' wide. Some homes in this neighborhood are as narrow as 42" wide in the front. Example, a pie shape cul-d-sac lot.

Lets do the math: If you have a 5' easement on the left of the home, a 40' wide home, that leaves 36' to right of the home to the fence line, and a 42' width between the house next door. 19242 Boltmore Bay has 6' spacing to the fence line. You can almost fit two of these houses on these lots.

If you want the truth, just ask me next time.

[banker]

Originally Posted by joe123456

I have to agree with playmaker - KB didn't go out of there way with the lot in question. They stopped selling the more expensive lines and therefore are building the 40' homes anywhere they can.

Although most people have a problem with developers mowing down trees, I personally don't mind it as long as they plant trees to make up for some of the ones chopped down. Most areas of San Antonio you don't want a tree right next to your slab, because it can create foundation problems.

The lot in question doesn't have a tree right next to the slab. It is in front of the home in the place that the drive would go if the house were centered on the lot.

And there just isn't any comparison to a new little tree planted to a decades old tree salvaged during the construction process. In my case - KB gave me new trees to go along with my existing old ones that were left on my lot.

[banker]

Originally Posted by playmaker7206

Actually my conclusion is fact based and not based on the KB employees. Who ever you checked with is also wrong, or feeding you wrong information. It seems as if you have been drinking too much KB Kool-Aid. These two estate homes mentioned are 70' in width because they have 3 car garages. The home being built is a 40' width.

When it comes to width of the lot size mentioned you were told incorrect information on this too. The lot at 19246 Boltmore Bay is actually 81' wide. All lot sizes are slightly different, and most homes on Boltmore Bay are 80' wide. Some homes in this neighborhood are as narrow as 42" wide in the front. Example, a pie shape cul-d-sac lot.

Lets do the math: If you have a 5' easement on the left of the home, a 40' wide home, that leaves 36' to right of the home to the fence line, and a 42' width between the house next door. 19242 Boltmore Bay has 6' spacing to the fence line. You can almost fit two of these houses on these lots.

If you want the truth, just ask me next time.

You are correct...lots do vary in size. In the Quarry they start at 1/4 acre and go up from there with varied widths.

As to the width of the houses...What I was referring to was the fact that the Estate homes are 60' series houses - before adding an optional third car garage. I have a Liberty line house which is a 50' series before adding a third car garage (which I did - brining mine to 60'). The new house series - the Trails are 40' and the Empire are 45'. The Empire comes standard with a three stall or tandum garage. The trails has an optional side third stall which would bring the width up to 50' like the model in the Quarry now.

And what is the deal about the Kool-Aid?

[banker]

Well - I walked through the house in question the other night and was shocked to see (some will rub this in I'm sure) that KB has drastically cut back the quality of the new "Trails" homes under construction in the Quarry. This may be more in line with their other neighborhoods - but asside from the houses being narrower and less attractive - they are built much cheaper. The houses had 24" on center framing (mine has 16" on center) for the interior walls, the arches are not framed out but fiber board nailed on a curve, the windows lack the divided lights, none of the headers were LVLs like on the Liberty and Estate series and like others have said - there are no vaulted or tray ceilings like my house has. The thing that really shocked me is that the base price of the "Trails" and "Empire" homes are not much cheaper than the significantly nicer "Liberty" and "Estate" homes that form the core of the neighborhood. I knew KB (like all the other builders) have had to scale back due to the challenging economic times - but it looks like they have gone too far for what was once their flagship neighborhood. It is a real shame. The construction/framing quality that KB used on their Liberty and Estate lines was unlike any of their previous neighborhoods and one thing that attracted me to build in The Quarry. All along I thought the cheaper line was just "easier to build" as I had been told by KB - but in fact it is cheaper because they have in a sense gutted the quality of the frame job. They will have the same nice exterior brick and stone choices and of course the same interior cabinet and finishing choices...but they will not be built the same. Those that sat on the fence and passed up an opportunity to get one of the Liberty line houses really missed out.

I really feel sorry for the folks in the Estate home on the left side as their porch is nearly close enough to touch!! That would bother me more than the quality does as it will soon enough be closed up behind nice looking brick and stone and we won't have to see it (the frame job). I just can't believe they are charging nearly as much for the new Trails and Empire collections as they did for the now discontinued Liberty line.

Don't get me wrong - I got an incredible home and am very pleased. And given the fact that I am on the low end of the overall community I am not all that bothered by the "look" of the new product. I am saddened to see how much quality was removed for the sake of the bottom line. I'm sure the current framing is to code, but it is just that the previous homes were built on a semi-custom basis and really set a different tone for the builder.

However - if you are coming into the neighborhood now...you are still building in a beautiful community with nearly every home being $350K and up with lots of big beautiful one story homes.

So - some of you were right about the KB quality - if not on the Liberty and Estate homes - on the new series.

[scuba steve]

Interesting notes. A house built by them in the neighborhood my fiance's parents moved to is being razed, I think. The company bought out the buyers due to major structural issues. I forget the name of the beam with a huge gap; I believe it's a big piece of the structure somewhere between the 1st and 2nd floors that resulted in the floor upstairs shifting an inch and a half or so. By the way, the place was built in late 2007.

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by banker

Well - I walked through the house in question the other night and was shocked to see (some will rub this in I'm sure) that KB has drastically cut back the quality of the new "Trails" homes under construction in the Quarry. This may be more in line with their other neighborhoods - but asside from the houses being narrower and less attractive - they are built much cheaper. The houses had 24" on center framing (mine has 16" on center) for the interior walls, the arches are not framed out but fiber board nailed on a curve, the windows lack the divided lights, none of the headers were LVLs like on the Liberty and Estate series and like others have said - there are no vaulted or tray ceilings like my house has. The thing that really shocked me is that the base price of the "Trails" and "Empire" homes are not much cheaper than the significantly nicer "Liberty" and "Estate" homes that form the core of the neighborhood. I knew KB (like all the other builders) have had to scale back due to the challenging economic times - but it looks like they have gone too far for what was once their flagship neighborhood. It is a real shame. The construction/framing quality that KB used on their Liberty and Estate lines was unlike any of their previous neighborhoods and one thing that attracted me to build in The Quarry. All along I thought the cheaper line was just "easier to build" as I had been told by KB - but in fact it is cheaper because they have in a sense gutted the quality of the frame job. They will have the same nice exterior brick and stone choices and of course the same interior cabinet and finishing choices...but they will not be built the same. Those that sat on the fence and passed up an opportunity to get one of the Liberty line houses really missed out.

I just can't believe they are charging nearly as much for the new Trails and Empire collections as they did for the now discontinued Liberty line.

Don't get me wrong - I got an incredible home and am very pleased. And given the fact that I am on the low end of the overall community I am not all that bothered by the "look" of the new product.

So - some of you were right about the KB quality - if not on the Liberty and Estate homes - on the new series.

My KB hallmark was framed using LVLs for window headers. My interior framing was a hit a miss...sometimes they would be 16" sometimes 24". The framers just throw up the homes fast. They aren't measuring exactly 24" and 16". Windows with divided lights is a personal choice -$150 option for all windows. No vaults or trays make it faster to frame. However, vaults might look nice but it costs you more money in loss of insulation. A master carpenter told me that vaults eventually fail.

The base price they have listed probably doesn't take in account incentives that they offer on a monthly basis. My Hallmark had a 15K off the list. Its a shell game they play. One month 15K off another month a reduced base price etc.

My opinion - For $250K-350K, I am impressed with the David Weekly homes. Their specifications sheets for their homes in my opinion the best thing going. Extra insulation R-15 walls, fresh air intake HVAC, etc. They go way above and beyond to build an energy effecient home.

[banker]

Originally Posted by joe123456

My KB hallmark was framed using LVLs for window headers. My interior framing was a hit a miss...sometimes they would be 16" sometimes 24". The framers just throw up the homes fast. They aren't measuring exactly 24" and 16". Windows with divided lights is a personal choice -$150 option for all windows.

The frame is put together in sections from a factory - so if there are some walls with 16" and some with 24" on center it was planned that way. My house has all 16" framing due to the fact the wall sections delivered were designed and built that way by the frame/truss manufacturer - as were all the other Liberty and Estate Homes. I didn't look at the Hallmark homes so I can't comment on that. The framers can build the houses fast because large sections of the wall are prefabricated. Actually - prefabricated walls tend to be of higher quality than on site framed walls due to the fact they are built in controlled environment and tend to be more accurately square and plumb.

Originally Posted by joe123456

No vaults or trays make it faster to frame. However, vaults might look nice but it costs you more money in loss of insulation. A master carpenter told me that vaults eventually fail.

If insulated property you will not have a loss of insulation. My house has R-30 batts on all vaulted areas. The only dollar loss is the fact that vaults and tray ceilings add cubic feet of air needing to be cooled. I had my insulation inspected prior to move in and it exceeded the R-30 level over my entire attic - including the tray and vaulted areas. As to vaults failing...not sure where you heard that. My last house was 25 years old when I sold it and had a large 20X18 living room with a vaulted ceiling that was in perfect condition when we sold it - despite the fact that the home was poorly constructed (by NPC) with 24" on center framing on all interior non load bearing walls with a 24" on center truss system supporting the Vault. In my life I have never heard of a vaulted ceiling failing...and I have been in homes over 30 years old with vaulted ceilings. I question this "master carpenter". If the framing is adequate the vault (just like all other walls/ceilings) should hold up just fine. I had my framing inspected prior to the sheet rock and it passed with flying colors. In addition to the LVLs, complete whole house 16" on center framing the house has extensive cross bracing thruought and 2X4 blocking between the studs on all loan bearing walls (added at my request at no cost to me) and deadwood on all corners instead of the cheaper sheet rock clips.