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Old 08-07-2014, 07:33 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,722 posts, read 3,824,714 times
Reputation: 3155

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
Rather than many replies to individual posts,I'll attempt to sum up responses in one.

re: - what does Pre-K-4-SA do that Head Start didn't already?

The most significant thing is that it makes pre-K available to a segment of the population that would have fallen through the cracks: the middle class/lower middle class earners, the working poor. As stated previously, to be eligible for Head Start you must earn no more than the federal poverty level, for a family of 4 that is $23,850.

For pre-K-4-SA, the limit is $44,123, which is the level of eligibility for a lunch program, which in some schools reaches more than 90% of their population. The difference is significant. Many families fall into that bracket - they work minimum wage jobs, or they work professional jobs....(when I worked for the city more than half of my staff made less than that, including me - with two advanced degrees). This is the population who can usually make ends meet - pay rent, usually feed their families, though the lunch program helps, but could never afford private preschool.

In addition to targeting this segment of the population, the intent was to provide a higher standard of pre-K education. It's not *just* childcare, it's education formed on evidence-based methods. Of course *all* pre-K, including Head Start, should provide high quality education, but the Head Start program is not there yet. This is why they initially aimed at hiring teachers with a higher education level and more experience - and paid them the salary commensurate with that level. Ideally, pre-K-4-SA's program would serve as a model for Head Start, pulling it up to a higher level. And while pre-K-4-SA has been championed as the "first" program of its kind, it's really based on a very standard European model of pre-school education that's been used extensively.

Also note that it includes children of active duty service members or children of service members killed. I don't believe Head Start includes these children (but I could be wrong on that, I didn't see reference to this group when I looked it up).

re: it's availability for all

In an ideal world, it would be like K-12 education, available to all regardless of income level. Until we're willing, as a society, to pay taxes to fund school for all 3-4 yr olds in Bexar County, that's not possible. If you believe it should be available to all, then contact your councilperson and tell them you want to increase taxes to cover this. For now, it's targeting a segment of the population who will gain the most from it - those kids who would otherwise struggle in K,1,2 to catch up to their peers who had attended pre-K or had other educational opportunities provided by their educated parents, since there are limited funds.

re: value of pre-K

There are studies which have proven the importance of pre-K, and that value increases as the income level of the families decrease. Since some have stated they refuse to believe the science, I won't bother with citing all the studies because it's a waste of time. That doesn't change the data which support pre-K.

re: teacher salaries

For someone with a master's degree and extensive experience, in most fields that would demand a higher salary. The salaries of pre-K-4-SA are aimed only at achieving that level of equality in pay.
We can agree to disagree and what is a "good" salary.
Have you even looked at the local ISD requirement for prek?

At NISD the eligibility requirements are the same as you outlined and so once again I see no difference...

Quote:
In order to be eligible for the Pre-Kindergarten Program, state law (Texas Education Code 29.153) requires that children must be 4 years old on or before September 1st and (one of the following)

unable to speak or comprehend the English language (speak another language other than English)*
or
educationally disadvantaged—(eligible to participate in the National Free/Reduced Lunch Program)
or
homeless
or
come from a family whose parent or official guardian is "active-duty" military personnel or whose parent/guardian was killed or injured while on active duty.
or
have been in the conservatorship (foster care) of the Department of Family and Protective Services (DFPS) following an adversary hearing.
Pre-Kindergarten | Northside Independent School District
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:51 AM
 
1,119 posts, read 779,585 times
Reputation: 2092
There is no difference...it's nothing but a scam to double tax us for "the sake of the children". Where is personal responsibility for having the children in the first place? As a former pre-school teacher myself, I am all for it- IF the parents can pay for it. Otherwise, I assure you there is not one thing taught in pre-school that cannot be taught by involved, engaged parents in a loving home. People are lazy and want someone else to do the teaching and someone else to pay for it.

We've moved away from SA, but I fear Pfree-K will soon be pushed nation-wide.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: San Antonio. Tx 78209
2,651 posts, read 6,497,804 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpydove View Post
There is no difference...it's nothing but a scam to double tax us for "the sake of the children". Where is personal responsibility for having the children in the first place? As a former pre-school teacher myself, I am all for it- IF the parents can pay for it. Otherwise, I assure you there is not one thing taught in pre-school that cannot be taught by involved, engaged parents in a loving home. People are lazy and want someone else to do the teaching and someone else to pay for it.

We've moved away from SA, but I fear Pfree-K will soon be pushed nation-wide.
That's a great perfect world scenario, but there are always going to be children who come from lower income homes, or single parent homes through death or divorce or other circumstances. The children who are already getting the short end of the stick through no fault of their own don't need another bad hand dealt to them.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:21 AM
 
5 posts, read 8,161 times
Reputation: 17
I am a hands on mother. I have taught my daughter the basics of where a five year old should be. She is learning how to read currently. The idea of putting her in preschool was because she is becoming bored at home. We venture out to the zoo, museums, parks, playgroups etc. I want to enroll her in school a few days a week. I see no reason why the city had to have Pre K 4 SA when the districts offer them as well as head start. My point is, it's upsetting that my child cannot be provided with this great opportunity. She turns five after the cut off date which means no kinder and she has to stay home another year. This is what I do not get: Why on the NISD website do they not require a social security card? Why is that ok?
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:03 PM
 
Location: San Antonio. Tx 78209
2,651 posts, read 6,497,804 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by missingautumn View Post
This is what I do not get: Why on the NISD website do they not require a social security card? Why is that ok?
Because it is illegal to deny a public education based on residency status.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:32 PM
 
1,119 posts, read 779,585 times
Reputation: 2092
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuboy86 View Post
That's a great perfect world scenario, but there are always going to be children who come from lower income homes, or single parent homes through death or divorce or other circumstances. The children who are already getting the short end of the stick through no fault of their own don't need another bad hand dealt to them.
Sorry, not buying it. I'm very, very sorry for children who get in to those circumstances, but I assure you they are not the majority. If you are "lower income" as you say, then you should either be getting more education to better yourself or working more hours.
There needs to be a check and balance of this program at the very least. The parents need to prove they are working while the kids are in Pfree-K and/or they need to be required to volunteer A LOT in the classroom. No going home and playing video games, surfing the internet, texting, and making more children for the rest of us to raise.
This can't keep coming off the backs of the working middle/upper-middle class. Wages are not keeping up with what is being taken out for social programs like this! I don't believe in helping someone who won't help themselves first.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:48 PM
 
5 posts, read 8,161 times
Reputation: 17
Really? Because in Del Rio,Texas the principal stood by the bridge and told all students living in Mexico to turn right back around because they could no longer go to DR schools.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Mid South Central TX
3,183 posts, read 7,402,472 times
Reputation: 2188
I have NO PROBLEM with PreK itself.

I have a problem with how THIS program is budgeted. The same $$ could have been funneled to existing programs to serve more children without duplicating what is already there. Economies of scale make existing programs more cost effective. The city could have contracted with local ISD's (just like Head Start does) to provide services while retaining control.

$36.5 million to serve 1500 kids?

Source:https://www.sanantonio.gov/Departmen...ar-Budget.aspx

Many of us teachers (with master's degrees and extensive experience) also think this way. Simply spending more money does not mean better.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:14 PM
 
Location: San Antonio. Tx 78209
2,651 posts, read 6,497,804 times
Reputation: 1735
Quote:
Originally Posted by missingautumn View Post
Really? Because in Del Rio,Texas the principal stood by the bridge and told all students living in Mexico to turn right back around because they could no longer go to DR schools.
That's NOT what we are talking about. If you have proof of residency of living in the United States, then your immigration residency status doesn't matter, you have the right to a free public education. It is against the law to deny a free public education to those residing here regardless of their immigration status.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:37 PM
 
2,721 posts, read 3,399,667 times
Reputation: 1536
Default Atta Boy Smuboy,

Spell it out for them. Eventually they will understand it all. SOME are slower to catch up with you, than others.
Keep it coming. School is open. The light is on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smuboy86 View Post
That's NOT what we are talking about. If you have proof of residency of living in the United States, then your immigration residency status doesn't matter, you have the right to a free public education. It is against the law to deny a free public education to those residing here regardless of their immigration status.
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