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Old 07-01-2015, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Brentwood
818 posts, read 981,860 times
Reputation: 1380

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
Doctors, clergy, grandmothers, just about everyone, lies through their teeth.
I find this to be especially true of cops.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:17 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,488 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpyDerp View Post
So who is going to perform the brain surgery on the baby? It's not going to be the ER doctor, it's going to be the specialist on call. I haven't thrown anyone under the bus, I've given my opinion about the cop's reaction to the situation and even acknowledged that he acted within his rights as a law enforcement officer. Neither have I implied that my friend can do no wrong; I've acknowledged that he exceeded the speed limit, albeit with the excuse that he was rushing to perform emergency surgery on an infant. I don't know if he has the time or inclination to fight the ticket, but I'm sure that it would be easy enough to provide the proper documentation to the judge. As you suggested, I assume that the judge would dismiss the ticket when provided said evidence. So everyone walks away happy, but that doesn't change the facts of my original post: a cop delayed a doctor who was in a hurry to perform emergency surgery. That was the only point I was trying to make and I can't see any benefit from discussing this further.
Again, if he was on call at a level 1 center, it is his legal and ethical responsibility to be available within a certain time frame. If speeding is how he solves that then he is outside his legal and ethical obligations.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:32 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,488 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray View Post
I find this to be especially true of cops.
I have never given someone a ticket that I could not swear against my soul I was sure I was correct about the technical details of that ticket. I also admit over the years that it is possible I have made mistakes but again, I can go to my grave knowing I dont know of any.

The other side of that is about half of people I have given a ticket to are sure I was wrong. This is the experience of most cops. That is why it is so easy to dismiss people saying stuff like you just did. Even if I make a mistake 10% of the time(and I am not), the 50% of people are are open about their belief I am wrong, that makes a lot of people wrong.

Ill give you an example. I have never written a running a stop sign ticket I didnt film. For some reasons (and I have some theories) a running a stop sign ticket, on average, elicits one of the most hostile reactions and angry denials of all simple traffic tickets. I.E. of most of the moving violations you can write, running a stop sign tickets gets people the angriest at you and is the one the most people say "No possible way."


This translates into one of the most challenged tickets in court. People get really committed to their belief that the Officer is flat out wrong. Again, given that I (and a lot of others) always film them, they are ALL faced with the reality that they are wrong. It causes a lot of people to have minor meltdowns. They have a very difficult time processing the reality because they are so committed to how they feel.

Point being, it is a lot easier to live in a fantasy than accept responsibility for ones actions. Even if we take the "cop" aspect out of it, we all know that is true. We all observe that in people around us all the time. Considering the police are in the business of making people accountable for their actions, they observe it a lot more than most.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:37 PM
 
1,355 posts, read 885,724 times
Reputation: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
Again, if he was on call at a level 1 center, it is his legal and ethical responsibility to be available within a certain time frame. If speeding is how he solves that then he is outside his legal and ethical obligations.
Google says that a neurosurgeon has to be on site at a Level I facility within 60 minutes. If your child or partner were in immediate need of surgery, would you rather have the doctor arrive at the 60-minute mark, or as fast as he/she can safely get there? Seconds count.

Why keep hashing this over and over? It's entirely plausible -- and in fact true -- that everything transpired as I explained.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:47 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,488 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpyDerp View Post
Google says that a neurosurgeon has to be on site at a Level I facility within 60 minutes. If your child or partner were in immediate need of surgery, would you rather have the doctor arrive at the 60-minute mark, or as fast as he/she can safely get there? Seconds count.

Why keep hashing this over and over? It's entirely plausible -- and in fact true -- that everything transpired as I explained.
I am not disputing your story. I can accept the truth of it and still point out the problems with it, as I have.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:56 PM
 
1,355 posts, read 885,724 times
Reputation: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neshomamench View Post
I am not disputing your story. I can accept the truth of it and still point out the problems with it, as I have.
It's possible to do so without insinuating that someone is a whiny liar who BS's people about what he does. This whole exchange should have ended with "Lots of people lie to cops" and "Yeah, but he wasn't lying."
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:05 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,488 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpyDerp View Post
It's possible to do so without insinuating that someone is a whiny liar who BS's people about what he does. This whole exchange should have ended with "Lots of people lie to cops" and "Yeah, but he wasn't lying."
He did not need to speed but that is his excuse so it can be the cops fault....and it worked. You found the fault with the cops actions as well.

You are swayed by his appeal to authority. You formed an opinion and we can safely assume you have not and will never hear the other side of the story. Without the help of google, you did not even know what his legal and ethical obligations are. Lets be real honest about that, there is a lot about his legal and ethical obligations you dont understand. I do.

You took your friend side. I totally understand that. It is what people do but in doing so, you might have other data put on the table that takes your truth to just "your side."
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:22 AM
 
1,355 posts, read 885,724 times
Reputation: 1090
And just what data might that be? What is going to counteract the fact that he was rushing to perform emergency surgery in the middle of the night? You've already said that a judge would dismiss the ticket when presented with proof, so I assume that you agree that driving safely a few MPH over the posted limit is acceptable -- if not absolutely legal -- in the case of a genuine medical emergency. So other than branding him a liar, what else could possibly turn this whole thing upside down?
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:43 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 1,211,488 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpyDerp View Post
And just what data might that be? What is going to counteract the fact that he was rushing to perform emergency surgery in the middle of the night? You've already said that a judge would dismiss the ticket when presented with proof, so I assume that you agree that driving safely a few MPH over the posted limit is acceptable -- if not absolutely legal -- in the case of a genuine medical emergency. So other than branding him a liar, what else could possibly turn this whole thing upside down?
You are putting words into my mouth.

A Judge dismissing it doesnt make it legal. It simply means a Judge dismissed it. That is a Judges prerogative. It isnt legal. He has a defense to prosecution. Which is exactly why you would write the ticket. Again, the officer doesnt know if the guy is telling the truth and it would take longer to verify at that moment than to cite and release.

And again, he did not need to speed. I am not sure how many time I need to say it but if he is on call, the onus is on him to be available. That availability can not include "and I will break the law to fulfill that obligation."

The law actually allows for a defense to prosecution for speeding medical doctors on their way to bonafide emergencies. Doctors abuse it, mostly because many cops dont understand what is a bonafide emergency. A doctor late for work isnt it, and in most cases, neither is an on call doctor. I have been called to more than one traffic stop over the years because the officer wanted my opinion. Sometimes the "I am doctor so and so on my way to save the lives of...." after talking with me ends up with "I am so sorry, I will never do it again unless it is legitimate...." They lie. The lie through their teeth. They do it often and they get away with it a lot. They are the main cause of problems for the legitimate ones.

What is going to happen to your friend, or people like him is he is going to end up in jail with a valid charge. It wouldnt be the first time either. People like that are going to run into someone like me, who knows exactly how the system works. There are quite a few cops married to doctors, hell there are some cops who ARE doctors, some being very well placed in various medical power structures. These police spouses and police doctors understand how it works. I would personally be inclined to (and have done so) let doctors making such claims go with the parting words that I will conduct and investigation into the veracity of their story. I have never personally done it, but when stories dont add up, officers have gladly show up to a doctors place of work and arrested them.

All of this is true, even if your friends story, as he tells it, is true. If he is on call, he needs to figure that out.
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Old 07-02-2015, 05:16 AM
 
5,623 posts, read 6,407,291 times
Reputation: 3593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
Not using signals - I agree w/you - no excuse.

Running red lights.....um, EVERY one I've ever seen do that was running "code 3" (lights & sirens)

Speeding - it's hard to call, because for safety reasons, there are legitimate reasons that you wouldn't run lights/sirens on a run.
Majority of the the time I have observed they do have lights and/or siren on when running a light but not so much for speeding. I don't doubt you are correct in saying that there is a legitimate reason for it.
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