So they remove Confederate symbols at the Courthouse (San Antonio, Alamo: 2015, buy)

[TrapperL]

SAN ANTONIO - Workers removed the Confederate symbols located at the Bexar County Courthouse just before midnight Tuesday after a unanimous vote by the commissioners court.
Article at
Confederate symbols removed from Bexar County Courthouse


So nobody cares that our dimwits downtown are apparent followers of the political correct stupidity that has infected this nation and now our town? Even our black Mayor is not in favor of this. So this part of history is so unimportant, regardless of the circumstances, that we have to bury it? So all of the people that died, on both sides, the slaves that died, all of these people are now irrelevant and a disgrace? Who is a disgrace are the dimwits downtown and the folks that think this should just be shoved under the rug. This happened in our history and it wasn't pretty. Keeping it in front of us reminds us that we must never let this happen again. Sweeping it under the rug won't make it go away. What's next, are we going to stop teaching our kids about the Civil War and pretend maybe they'll never find out about it? This nation and now this town is on the road to destruction. When we deny our past, we are denying our future. Wake up San Antonio! We have a tremendous history here and all cultures are contributors. Don't be denied your heritage.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana

[unintentionallyfunny]

A flag that was never even used during the civil war and wasn't even used as the "Confederate" flag until many many years later, is now somehow super historical and super important.

Riiiight.

I don't agree with either side because I really don't care.

I'm not sure why people passionately care about a flag that retroactively represents a war that was fought in, which the south wanted to maintain slavery.

I'm also not sure why people are just now making a big stink about it and removing it and denying its existence.

It being removed and etched from history doesn't affect me one bit and I doubt it affect 99% of Americans outside of just wanting to be upset for the sake of it.

[prim8]

I don't think anyone would care at all if its recent history (last 7 decades or so) wasn't so associated with racism due to certain groups using it for their own purposes.
Before that I'm not sure anyone even used the flag at all after the civil war. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[TexasRedneck]

The flag was used as a commemorative to recall a war fought over states rights. It's been convoluted into a war over slavery, which wasn't the issue. The real issue was that of control of a southern part of the country that had grown in financial and industrial strength, which was considered a threat to the established manufacturing facilities in the north.

If you think blacks were treated poorly in the south (and there's no denying that many were), their treatment up north was even worse - but we don't talk about that because it doesn't fit the talking points of those in power - both then and now. Many honorable people of ALL colors fought on both sides - but now, we're going to try to erase the sacrifices they made.

Give 'em another 10 years, and let's see what they do with the Alamo.....

[prim8]

Thanks TR, that's what I understood already about the civil war.
I'm more referring to the time between then and the 1960s or so. I'm having trouble finding it used very often between 1905 and then.
What I am finding, is rightly or wrongly many people for some reason associate that flag with racism and the lynchings that happened the decades after the civil war.
What's the right answer to all this? I'm inclined to say let people buy and fly the flag all they want, but they should be prepared to answer questions about their beliefs.

Should it be on government buildings? That's a tougher question, and one that should be answered by debating facts, and not kneejerk reactions based on some racist idiot that did something horrific.

[Azure110]

Originally Posted by unintentionallyfunny

A flag that was never even used during the civil war and wasn't even used as the "Confederate" flag until many many years later, is now somehow super historical and super important.

Riiiight.

I don't agree with either side because I really don't care.

I'm not sure why people passionately care about a flag that retroactively represents a war that was fought in, which the south wanted to maintain slavery.

I'm also not sure why people are just now making a big stink about it and removing it and denying its existence.

It being removed and etched from history doesn't affect me one bit and I doubt it affect 99% of Americans outside of just wanting to be upset for the sake of it.

You cared enough to comment. What you should really care about as well all other Americans is that we are allowing the government to do things like this.

I grew up watching Dukes of Hazards and the confederate flag on the car did not make me racist. The show did not make me racist. I don't remember anyone complaining about it then. People are complaining about it now because of that kid using the flag in the wrong way.

[hillcountrywinefan]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

The flag was used as a commemorative to recall a war fought over states rights. It's been convoluted into a war over slavery, which wasn't the issue. The real issue was that of control of a southern part of the country that had grown in financial and industrial strength, which was considered a threat to the established manufacturing facilities in the north.

If you think blacks were treated poorly in the south (and there's no denying that many were), their treatment up north was even worse - but we don't talk about that because it doesn't fit the talking points of those in power - both then and now. Many honorable people of ALL colors fought on both sides - but now, we're going to try to erase the sacrifices they made.

Give 'em another 10 years, and let's see what they do with the Alamo.....

Excellent post, TexasRedneck. Your're very well-read in U.S. history and spot on in your post. Slavery was just part of the foreground in the argument on why the war needed to be waged. But that was just window dressing for the masses who could be fired up by the story of John Brown and the plight of the slaves. The majority of the reason was preservation of the Union and that was why many were so impassioned to engage in the conflict on the Northern side.

North and South traded heavily between each other because of the diversity in industrial assets each possessed. In fact, when the war began, many industrialists in the North were opposed to the war as it would impact them financially. Tarriffs, state's rights and the slavery issue all became mixed into the 'Cri de Coeur' for war between the states.

Brothers, cousins and friends faced each other on the battlefield in a brutal battle for domination. In the end, many veterans of both sides learned to put away the largely political reasons for their battle and try to heal the wounds left by war. Industrialists and politicians exploited and profited from the victory and the average Joe on both sides went on trying to eke out a living after doing. Slavery was ended, but the economic and social position of those freed would stagnate for another hundred years and then some.

The whole censorship of the flag reminds me of how Stalin would remove people from photographs when they fell out of favor. And, to a lesser degree, the denazification program in Germany following the 1945 victory. But racism has existed since the beginning of time and is not going to be erased with the expungement of a flag. Many racial and discriminatory horrors have been and are still being committed under the symbols of various religious beliefs in the name of whatever deity and beliefs they represent.

As for how the Alamo will fare in 10 years, I hope that it is not co-opted by anyone for gain. It stands for the concept of freedom that its defenders willingly chose to lay down their lives for.

[L210]

There were a few states that specifically stated that slavery was the reason why they seceded. Out of those states, slavery was the main reason why most seceded. The Confederacy was a very small period of southern history. Many of the confederate states were under the control of other countries much longer. How come those flags aren't flown at government buildings?

Government buildings, while they do often display historical pictures and other relics, are not museums. Refusing to fly the flag of a foreign country is not denying history. We have history books and museums for those things. No one really cared about the Confederate flag until the rise of the KKK and the height of the Civil Rights Movement. States started erecting the flag in the 1960s to protest to desegregation. I don't think most people have even read the 10th Amendment.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I don't understand the mindset of anyone who thinks that states rights should trump human rights. Thank God for the 14th Amendment. The Equal Protection Clause has allowed the courts to apply many of the first 10 amendments of the Constitution to the states because they are just as capable as the federal government of violating individual rights as has been demonstrated many times throughout history. It is the federal government's job to protect people's constitutional rights even if that means forcing the states to comply. States don't have the right to violate people's constitutional rights.

The swastika is not on government buildings in Germany, but billions of people have still learned about the history of Nazi Germany.

[Labamigo]

The County Commissioners are doing the same thing that ISIS is doing in the Middle East. Destroying the history they don't like.

If that's the company they want to keep then so be it.

[L210]

Originally Posted by Labamigo

The County Commissioners are doing the same thing that ISIS is doing in the Middle East. Destroying the history they don't like.

If that's the company they want to keep then so be it.

How is this destroying history? To compare this to the actions of ISIS is . ISIS has more in common with the hate groups protesting over the flag's removal in South Carolina.