Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hi BigdogsTX, That was another great post. I, too, am a gay guy interested in gentrification. I’m originally from Chicago. I certainly hope that the SA Main Street area gentrifies in a gay direction because everyone needs a "place." However, I'd love to hear feedback regarding a couple of reasons why I think this may not happen in San Antonio.
Cities like San Diego enjoy an influx of young gay people from all over the country who flock there to express their gay selves, free of family repression and rejection, to therefore form an alternative, and accepting, cocoon. It would seem to me that this would never be the case in San Antonio because the largely Hispanic culture is very family oriented and closeted. Gay people (or any people really) tend to stay in San Antonio for family reasons, and if there is closeted-ness involved, this may explain why gay people stay "discreet" in the suburbs. Mom, dad, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandpa, and grandma are in town, and armed with Rosaries! When I was considering a move to San Antonio, I chatted with a ton of gay guys on gay.com to get info. Apart from being hung-up on how "straight-acting" they were (can you say internalized homophobia?), almost every single person said, “My God, why would you want to come to SA from Chicago?” They thought I was nuts. Then I’d ask them why they stayed in SA if it was so bad, and they would invariably say that they would love to leave but they stayed because they had family in SA and I guess they felt that they couldn’t leave them (or Texas in general—but that’s another post!). Second, I know this may sound harsh, but it takes a population of corporate salary-earning gay people with disposable income to keep a gay culture and its organizations thriving, and San Antonio does not have this. When I’ve gone to clubs in SA and have waited in line outside, I’ve felt like I was in line at an unemployment office. This is not the feeling I’ve gotten at clubs in other cities where people are much more put-together. Why would gay people without family connections in SA choose this over a better city? Furthermore, I would doubt that there is a market for an improving, sustainable, and thriving gay culture in SA. Southeastern gays flock to Atlanta; Midwestern gays flock to Chicago; mountain region gays flock to Denver or Dallas. South Central gays flock to Houston. Any gay people who crave a cosmopolitan edge, and who are not happy with the dinner party culture you describe, would skip SA and go to the nearest existing gay hotspot that is more livable because of its more progressive social values (Austin or Houston) and sense of style. For these reasons, it is my opinion that there is no geographical, cultural, or social rationale for SA to import the population that would allow a gay culture to take flight. BigdogsTX, I do applaud you though for your hard work and I appreciate your spirit.
Hi BigdogsTX, That was another great post. I, too, am a gay guy interested in gentrification. I’m originally from Chicago. I certainly hope that the SA Main Street area gentrifies in a gay direction because everyone needs a "place." However, I'd love to hear feedback regarding a couple of reasons why I think this may not happen in San Antonio.
Cities like San Diego enjoy an influx of young gay people from all over the country who flock there to express their gay selves, free of family repression and rejection, to therefore form an alternative, and accepting, cocoon. It would seem to me that this would never be the case in San Antonio because the largely Hispanic culture is very family oriented and closeted. Gay people (or any people really) tend to stay in San Antonio for family reasons, and if there is closeted-ness involved, this may explain why gay people stay "discreet" in the suburbs. Mom, dad, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandpa, and grandma are in town, and armed with Rosaries! When I was considering a move to San Antonio, I chatted with a ton of gay guys on gay.com to get info. Apart from being hung-up on how "straight-acting" they were (can you say internalized homophobia?), almost every single person said, “My God, why would you want to come to SA from Chicago?” They thought I was nuts. Then I’d ask them why they stayed in SA if it was so bad, and they would invariably say that they would love to leave but they stayed because they had family in SA and I guess they felt that they couldn’t leave them (or Texas in general—but that’s another post!). Second, I know this may sound harsh, but it takes a population of corporate salary-earning gay people with disposable income to keep a gay culture and its organizations thriving, and San Antonio does not have this. When I’ve gone to clubs in SA and have waited in line outside, I’ve felt like I was in line at an unemployment office. This is not the feeling I’ve gotten at clubs in other cities where people are much more put-together. Why would gay people without family connections in SA choose this over a better city? Furthermore, I would doubt that there is a market for an improving, sustainable, and thriving gay culture in SA. Southeastern gays flock to Atlanta; Midwestern gays flock to Chicago; mountain region gays flock to Denver or Dallas. South Central gays flock to Houston. Any gay people who crave a cosmopolitan edge, and who are not happy with the dinner party culture you describe, would skip SA and go to the nearest existing gay hotspot that is more livable because of its more progressive social values (Austin or Houston) and sense of style. For these reasons, it is my opinion that there is no geographical, cultural, or social rationale for SA to import the population that would allow a gay culture to take flight. BigdogsTX, I do applaud you though for your hard work and I appreciate your spirit.
Could it be in San Antonio that the families or more accepting than in most places and that is why they don't want to leave there family's? I have many and mean many gay friends and only two are "in the closet" If gay.com is your only source of gay men then it seems you know very little about San Antonio gay scene. I actually feel more integrated into the community here in San Antonio than i did in Phoenix and Austin for that matter. While OP's question was a good one for some it seemed unimportant. I live around people not races, religions, ethnicity's or orientations.
To the OP i really think that you will feel very at home here in San Antonio.
Hi BigdogsTX, That was another great post. I, too, am a gay guy interested in gentrification. I’m originally from Chicago. I certainly hope that the SA Main Street area gentrifies in a gay direction because everyone needs a "place." However, I'd love to hear feedback regarding a couple of reasons why I think this may not happen in San Antonio.
Cities like San Diego enjoy an influx of young gay people from all over the country who flock there to express their gay selves, free of family repression and rejection, to therefore form an alternative, and accepting, cocoon. It would seem to me that this would never be the case in San Antonio because the largely Hispanic culture is very family oriented and closeted. Gay people (or any people really) tend to stay in San Antonio for family reasons, and if there is closeted-ness involved, this may explain why gay people stay "discreet" in the suburbs. Mom, dad, cousins, brothers, sisters, grandpa, and grandma are in town, and armed with Rosaries! When I was considering a move to San Antonio, I chatted with a ton of gay guys on gay.com to get info. Apart from being hung-up on how "straight-acting" they were (can you say internalized homophobia?), almost every single person said, “My God, why would you want to come to SA from Chicago?” They thought I was nuts. Then I’d ask them why they stayed in SA if it was so bad, and they would invariably say that they would love to leave but they stayed because they had family in SA and I guess they felt that they couldn’t leave them (or Texas in general—but that’s another post!). Second, I know this may sound harsh, but it takes a population of corporate salary-earning gay people with disposable income to keep a gay culture and its organizations thriving, and San Antonio does not have this. When I’ve gone to clubs in SA and have waited in line outside, I’ve felt like I was in line at an unemployment office. This is not the feeling I’ve gotten at clubs in other cities where people are much more put-together. Why would gay people without family connections in SA choose this over a better city? Furthermore, I would doubt that there is a market for an improving, sustainable, and thriving gay culture in SA. Southeastern gays flock to Atlanta; Midwestern gays flock to Chicago; mountain region gays flock to Denver or Dallas. South Central gays flock to Houston. Any gay people who crave a cosmopolitan edge, and who are not happy with the dinner party culture you describe, would skip SA and go to the nearest existing gay hotspot that is more livable because of its more progressive social values (Austin or Houston) and sense of style. For these reasons, it is my opinion that there is no geographical, cultural, or social rationale for SA to import the population that would allow a gay culture to take flight. BigdogsTX, I do applaud you though for your hard work and I appreciate your spirit.
You sound like that Infinity poster except for a different name. Judging people in lines at clubs, judging the way they look. Being judgmental may work for you but it's not something most people can stand.
Also, generalizing an entire populous because of your preconceived notions is quite telling of what kind of person you truly are.
San Antonio is a very accepting city and is quite progressive (no matter how much you assume to believe otherwise) when it comes to gay community. Many examples have already been given in this thread.
Also, like ryne implied, San Antonio families, espically Hispanic, are very accepting of gays especially in their own family.
I moved to Tobin Hill almost two years ago, and absolutely love it. My partner and I have had no problems with crime or any sort of uncomfortable situations with neighbors - on the contrary, everyone we've met is very warm and welcoming.
I guess my issue with San Antonio's 'gayosity' is that while it's a very gay-friendly city in some respects, it's also a severely under-developed city if you're hellbent on being part of 'the culture.'
See, I'm not. I don't frequent the clubs, bars, stores, etc. I'm constantly traveling for my job and find that when I'm home, I simply want to be a homebody with my partner and do generalized things: Have a meal at Biga, go see something at The Josephine, workout at Rogers Ranch. We don't define ourselves by our sexuality... We define ourselves by who we are and how we treat eachother (and others).
Frankly, if SA develops a 'gayborhood' or not is really no sweat off my brow. I'm happy living a normal existence in San Antonio without needing that influence (or, some may say added stress) in my life. So many cities are now shunning the traditional pack mentality in favor of a more open feeling (ie, Chicago's Boystown). Gays aren't forced to group up anymore, thanks to generalized acceptance, and can basically live anywhere in a major metro area.
I like that thought. We're getting to a more equal status. Why continue to ghettoize and compartmentalize ourselves? I don't see that as healthy.
So many cities are now shunning the traditional pack mentality in favor of a more open feeling (ie, Chicago's Boystown). Gays aren't forced to group up anymore, thanks to generalized acceptance, and can basically live anywhere in a major metro area.
\
BN
Chicago's "Boystown is the epitome of a gay ghetto... right down to the rainbow flag light posts on Halsted street. Pretty much the entire gay community in Chicago revolves around North Halsted street.
After reading some of these comments on here, I want to apologize for my own negative comments earlier in this thread. especially to bigdogs. Id hate to be one of these negative people who judge others. There are plenty of times when I myself dont feel like im dressed well enough or have enough money, and all that stuff that goes alon with it.
Chicago's "Boystown is the epitome of a gay ghetto... right down to the rainbow flag light posts on Halsted street. Pretty much the entire gay community in Chicago revolves around North Halsted street.
Actually...
Being FROM Chicago and seeing the transformation of Boystown myself over the last 10 years, it's apparent that most of the gay businesses, people and culture are moving into Wicker Park, Lincoln Park and Andersonville. Walk down Halstead today and you'll see condos being built for straight yuppies and their children. Many of the businesses (GayMart, etc) have moved out. New bars, clothing stores and clubs are moving into other portions of Chicago. The change has happened.
It is no longer the epitome of the 'gay ghetto.' Just because the rainbow lamp-posts are left, doesn't make it a rainbow-type of neighborhood.
Being FROM Chicago and seeing the transformation of Boystown myself over the last 10 years, it's apparent that most of the gay businesses, people and culture are moving into Wicker Park, Lincoln Park and Andersonville. Walk down Halstead today and you'll see condos being built for straight yuppies and their children. Many of the businesses (GayMart, etc) have moved out. New bars, clothing stores and clubs are moving into other portions of Chicago. The change has happened.
It is no longer the epitome of the 'gay ghetto.' Just because the rainbow lamp-posts are left, doesn't make it a rainbow-type of neighborhood.
BN
I can see that... its happening in a lot of older gay neighborhoods like SF and NY but I think its more because of economic reasons... the "straight yuppies" are pricing everyone out of the neighborhood. The neighborhoods don't disappear though, they just move to less gentrified parts of town...
BN it sounds like you are very well settled in your suburban lifestyle and I know many in the gay community are, but there are a lot of men and women in San Antonio who would think your idea of a nice time (Biga, Rogers Ranch) as perfectly wretched or, have absolutely no desire to "blend" with the Stone Oak crowd.
It has nothing to do with being "defined by our sexuality". There's no sin in gay people wanting to be around other gay people when they are want to relax and have fun at the end of the week. Places like Silo and Holihan's are fantastic restaurant's and bars where you will find the occasional gay nesters, but when it comes down to it a single gay man in his 20's is probably not really wanting to spend his Saturday night sipping Cosmo's with a loopland soccer mom who is going to attend Cornerstone Church the next morning.
I guess my point is not that San Antonio is going to ever be a gay "Mecca" like Chicago or NY, but it could (and will) be a hell of a lot better than it is now. I guess what's irritating to me is the typical San Antonio throw in the towel mentality (San Antonio will never fill in the blank) being applied to the gay community here. There's a lot of potential for (and hopefully money to be made) on a vibrant gay neighborhood here in SA. The 4 bars on the strip gross more in liquor sales than Silo and Holihan's combined.
On that subject, time for a shameless plug... Here is the architects rendering of what Luther's is going to look like when its done, hopefully in a month we will be re-opening. Tonight is the last night Luther's is going to be open in its current state so stop by if you want to grab a late night burger.
Last edited by BigDogsTX; 03-01-2008 at 12:25 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
May I suggest...
