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Old 10-08-2016, 09:51 PM
 
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Hi fellow San Antonio residents,

I realize this is a fairly long read but it is what I believe could be a very important topic for those of us living in San Antonio. Hopefully this topic will remain nothing more then just conversation, not reality.

I wanted to make a thread about something I have been thinking about for years now. Something that me and my girlfriend and others have talked about and agreed with. Something that isn't guaranteed to happen but is a strong possibility. SA would be priority target #1 for a nuclear strike from enemy countries.

If an enemy wants to make a symbolic (but not really tactical/strategic) nuclear strike they would attack Washington DC or New York City.

If an enemy wants to make a tactical/strategic nuclear strike to significantly hurt/take out military capabilities and also a ton of civilian casualties, San Antonio would rank #1 as a target.


Think about it, San Antonio has multiple military bases here in the city from multiple branches. There are more military bases in San Antonio than any other city. There is more active duty military here than any other city. A huge reason to attack San Antonio is Lackland. Lackland is the "Gateway to the Air Force". Basically, everyone and anyone entering our Air Force comes in through Lackland for basic training. If an enemy wants to significantly disrupt an inevitable draft for people entering the Air Force they would take out Lackland and all the bases in San Antonio with it. The destruction of Lackland would be a huge blow to our training efforts so it would be a priority target.

Another huge tactical strike reason would be Randolph Air Force base (AFB). Randolph AFB headquarters the Air Force Personnel Center (AFPC) and the Air Force Manpower Agency. Basically they headquarter troop movements. A huge priority target.

The reason I bring this up is it seems the world is getting crazier year by year. Nation against Nation. Nations making direct (or indirect) threats against us. North Korea (NK), China, Iran, Russia just to name a few. Nations seem to be aligning and pushing the limits. Things really could get out of control quickly.

The dictatorship of Iran has repeatedly threatened to blow the US off the face of the map. They were shown to be developing nuclear weapons. Hopefully the plans set in place from this administration has significantly limited that.
Iran Threatens the US and the Middle East: Stay Away from Our Redlines. Obama's Response? | Huffington Post


The dictatorship of NK is a rouge government that has already developed nuclear weapons and if you follow the news, you would know that they are constantly doing tests despite international sanctions to work on the means to get long range missile technology to get a missile over here. They have directly threatened to wipe America off the face of the map many times now. They have made videos about it. They have said it directly. They have already attacked us in Cyberspace over something as menial as a film by Sony Entertainment. They threaten our ally South Korea on a regular basis. They have a leader crazy enough to launch a nuclear weapon either directly at us or one of our allies. One only has to look at rhetoric and progress from NK to be at least a little bit concerned. China supports NK behind the scenes.
North Korea threatens war with U.S. in propaganda film - CNN Video


Rhetoric for conflict between the US and the dictatorship government of China (a nuclear powered country) has gotten to a boiling point with the South China Sea within the past few years. China has recently built artificial islands from submerged reefs in international waters close to our allies and claiming the area their own. They are claiming most of the South China Sea. China has then been harassing our ally countries when they go out to fish even when our allies are close to their own shores. An international court has recently ruled these islands in the South China Sea as illegitimate but that has not had any effect on China in ceasing the threats and patrols. It has only increased the rhetoric and patrols of the sea in the area. We have the Philippines and Japan who are our allies who are being harassed by the Chinese on a regular basis. We have defense treaties with these nations. We are doing “freedom of navigation” patrols in those international waters but we are being harassed by China each time. The opportunity for a “mishap” is high. China has recently built “hardened military aircraft hangers” on these islands as well as deployed missiles to these illegitimate islands. They have basically militarized these illegitimate islands they built in the South China Sea that are very close to our allies.
South China Sea military bases growth revealed in images - CNNPolitics.com

The dictatorship of Russia has recently invaded another sovereign country (Ukraine) and taken over part of Ukraine’s land (Crimea) and absorbed it into its own. This has brought about international condemnation from the international community and fear for those countries neighboring Russia. Russia has also stepped up air patrols of their bombers close to our borders, our allies borders and to countries neighboring Russia. This has caused fear among those countries that border Russia that Russia will do the same to them. This has caused an arms race and fear among bordering countries. These countries are asking for our help and are beefing up their own militaries for fear of a Russia invasion, just like they recently did in Ukraine. Russia and the US are now involved in a bombing campaign in Syria but both sides are at odds on the mission and their goals. The Syrian leadership ruled by Assad has indiscriminately bombed its civilians killing innocent men women and children in hospitals, in their homes and other areas. Basically anywhere and everywhere. It has created one of the biggest exoduses of refugees in the Middle East the world has ever seen. An international investigation has shown the Russians shot down a civilian aircraft (Malaysia Flight 17) as it was flying over Ukraine and supporting the murderous Assad regime that has indiscriminately used Chlorine and other chemical attacks as well as barrel bombed in areas littered with innocent civilians to drive fear and migration into people to ensure Assad stays in power. Russia is supporting Assad and Syria despite the humanitarian cost. Russia is now accusing the US of supporting terrorists in that country while we accuse them of continuing to kill scores of innocent people. The rhetoric between our two countries has gotten to “Cold War levels” according to many international news outlets. Threats are now being lobbed by both sides. We currently fly air bombing missions over Syria as is Russia. There have been numerous reports of "unsafe actions" in the air when Russian aircraft deliberately got "dangerously close" to our aircraft over Syria as well as in international waters. Russia has recently moved surface to air missiles in Syria even though the "terrorists" Russia is claiming to be fighting do not have access to nor do they fly planes over Syria. Russia has recently told us they will attack our planes if we attack any of the Syrian government. We have stated that the Assad regime must go because of what it has done to its own people. Obviously our goals are different an neither side looks to back down. Things are escalating fast. Iranian fighters are being recruited and fighting among Russia and Syrian government forces while the Syrian government attacks its own people. We are still there. The opportunity for a “mishap” is incredibly high.
Russia warns it will shoot down alliance jets over Syria if US launches air strikes against Assad


Russia and China have seemed too align against the US according to statements, rhetoric and actions. They recently did a training mission together in the South China Sea which is unprecedented. Iran has aligned with Russia, North Korea and China. China is supporting the North Korean regime. That leaves the dictator governments of Russia, North Korea, Iran and other countries (like Cuba and others) on one side and the US, Australia, France, Germany and others on the other side. We are potentially talking about WWIII.
Russian newspaper warns 'risky game' Putin is playing in Syria could start Third World War | The Independent

WORLD WAR 3? Army chiefs claims war is 'almost guaranteed and will be extremely lethal' | World | News | Daily Express

http://www.morningnewsusa.com/world-...-23110245.html

What also really concerns me is that the Russian government is preparing its people for a nuclear war against us. Or at least a nuclear strike from us against their country. Recently, as much as 40 million people in Russia practiced a simulated nuclear strike on its people. Things are getting pretty crazy all over the world.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nuclear-weapon-training-attack-radiation-moscow-vladimir-putin-a7345461.html

This got me thinking. I see a previous thread on this forum talking about old tunnels under the city.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-antonio/214550-tunnels-underground-passages-sa.html

I believe San Antonio is priority target #1 for an enemy nation to attack strategically. That's bad for us San Antonio residents.

Does the US (in specific San Antonio) have any bunkers we could go to should nuclear missiles be fired in our direction?
Do we have an evacuation route (similar to a hurricane evacuation route?
Where are the entrances to these supposed underground tunnels?
Where could we go to be safe?

Last edited by txbullsfan; 10-08-2016 at 11:05 PM..
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:46 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,552 posts, read 57,471,708 times
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I feel more vulnerable to this type of attack while in my WA home.

But since USA has remote warhead installations at home and abroad, I doubt SA is Top target. (But I am not privy to NK plans) Likely be some angry blast from our 'closer friends' in Europe.

In all likelihood warfare has changed, and our threats are now already inside USA (including nukes)

There were a lot of retired USA missile sites For Sale, probably some available in west TX. But I have a feeling any existing underground SA bunkers will not be open to the public. Some of my 1960's Popular Mechanics magazines have plans for DIY CD bunkers. I'm not planning on building one.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:21 AM
 
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Default A Nuclear attack on the Alamo,

This Atomic threat was a fear that plagued San Antonio many, years ago for the same lengthy list of reasons you've listed. I woudn't worry about it now, it is a little bit late , the cold war is over. Most of the U.S. military might that existed here is gone. As was written earlier here the bomb threat is from the inside now.
Years ago when I was a little bitty kid ;bomb shelters made of steel were stood out on display for the public to inspect and definitely buy on Probandt St near where Southtown is now. They all had a little breathing pipe coming out the top I can still remember. What good that would do I did not know then or now. I think the idea was , they were to be buried, though I never really knew thsi either. When I was a little kid- I was intensely interested in exploring these bomb shelters.
At our southside elementary school during the Cuban misslie crisis we had to keep a one gallon jug of water per child stored there and even participate in nuclear attack drills where, inside the brick school house we used to hide underneath our school desks and put our heads down between our hands, and hope for the best. The bell would sound and we had tp perform a drill like a fire drill except for, we would hide.

Dad never would stop to see the brightly painted shelters no matter how many times I asked him to. He is a Korean vet and near ninety now. I do not believe an atomic attack is too high on his list of worries.

Some of the older members of the forum might remember these very brightly painted shiny objects
( green,blue,red )lined along the west side of Probandt just south of Alamo St. These shelters were oblong and amazingly were shaped exactly like a flying saucer UFO.
No, I am not making this up there were actually bomb shelters for sale on the southside. The fear was
far more real back then in the late fifties and early sixties. Perhaps Trapper can verify these sightings
or another veteran Southsider remembers these shelters on the curve of Probandt just south of Pioneer Flour Mills.
I can't remember my exact age now nor the year, I must have been nine or ten and this was before the freeways in the city were built so we had to take City streets to travel downtown on. This was before the dawn of the shopping mall and even department stores did not exist and so many family demands were met by downtown stores.
The fear of a nuclear blast was so tangible ( it was thought at the time) that the shelters sat there all very bizarre looking and .....every time we went downtown in Dad's Nineteen Sixty Ford Galaxy there they were, arrayed along Probandt st. just south of Pioneer Flour Mills. I would imagine the shelter company has gone out of business by this time.
I have learned to live with the fear of nuclear attack by now.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:24 AM
 
1,447 posts, read 1,177,873 times
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Flight time for a ballistic missile is only about 30 minutes, so there wouldn't be enough time for most residents to travel to a bunker. San Antonio is a major city and military hub, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a #1 target.

Any launch of ICBMs would be unlikely, as we maintain an overwhelming response capability and would flatten the aggressor in return. Mutually Assured Destruction.

A terrorist attack with a dirty bomb seems more likely and they would probably choose a more symbolic/significant target like DC or Manhattan. Not a huge number of deaths nor destruction, but a lengthy, expensive cleanup operation.
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Old 10-09-2016, 10:54 AM
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Location: Ohio
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The limestone and water table issues that keep us from having basements will also make it difficult to have an underground bunker here.
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Old 10-09-2016, 04:39 PM
 
Location: South Central Texas
114,838 posts, read 65,450,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckster View Post
This Atomic threat was a fear that plagued San Antonio many, years ago for the same lengthy list of reasons you've listed. I woudn't worry about it now, it is a little bit late , the cold war is over. Most of the U.S. military might that existed here is gone. As was written earlier here the bomb threat is from the inside now.
Years ago when I was a little bitty kid ;bomb shelters made of steel were stood out on display for the public to inspect and definitely buy on Probandt St near where Southtown is now. They all had a little breathing pipe coming out the top I can still remember. What good that would do I did not know then or now. I think the idea was , they were to be buried, though I never really knew thsi either. When I was a little kid- I was intensely interested in exploring these bomb shelters.
At our southside elementary school during the Cuban misslie crisis we had to keep a one gallon jug of water per child stored there and even participate in nuclear attack drills where, inside the brick school house we used to hide underneath our school desks and put our heads down between our hands, and hope for the best. The bell would sound and we had tp perform a drill like a fire drill except for, we would hide.

Dad never would stop to see the brightly painted shelters no matter how many times I asked him to. He is a Korean vet and near ninety now. I do not believe an atomic attack is too high on his list of worries.

Some of the older members of the forum might remember these very brightly painted shiny objects
( green,blue,red )lined along the west side of Probandt just south of Alamo St. These shelters were oblong and amazingly were shaped exactly like a flying saucer UFO.
No, I am not making this up there were actually bomb shelters for sale on the southside. The fear was
far more real back then in the late fifties and early sixties. Perhaps Trapper can verify these sightings
or another veteran Southsider remembers these shelters on the curve of Probandt just south of Pioneer Flour Mills.
I can't remember my exact age now nor the year, I must have been nine or ten and this was before the freeways in the city were built so we had to take City streets to travel downtown on. This was before the dawn of the shopping mall and even department stores did not exist and so many family demands were met by downtown stores.
The fear of a nuclear blast was so tangible ( it was thought at the time) that the shelters sat there all very bizarre looking and .....every time we went downtown in Dad's Nineteen Sixty Ford Galaxy there they were, arrayed along Probandt st. just south of Pioneer Flour Mills. I would imagine the shelter company has gone out of business by this time.
I have learned to live with the fear of nuclear attack by now.
I think i remember those shelters on Probandt. I think San Antonio wasn't high on the first strike list even when Kelly was still operating as a base. So I was told anyhow. Austin maybe, as they had silos there or near there. I do recall us having a Geiger counter near the time of the Medina Base explosion.
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Old 10-09-2016, 06:05 PM
 
1,514 posts, read 880,494 times
Reputation: 1961
I still believe tactically (not necessarily symbolically), San Antonio would be #1 on the list of cities to Nuke by an enemy due to all the military assets (personnel, important missions, aircraft, equipment) here (as stated in the OP) as well as the high civilian population here. Even if not #1 I guarantee its high on the list due to those two factors.

As one recent thread on here (and multiple news outlets) stated, San Antonio/New Braunfels is the second fastest growing area in the country. That's right, not just the fastest growing in Texas, but in the whole country. People are moving and settling here in droves.
New Braunfels becomes second-fastest growing city in the U.S. - San Antonio Express-News

San Antonio already holds the #7 spot for the largest population in a city. Its sits right behind Phoenix and Philadelphia but based on the incredibly high growth rate (10.73%) it will shortly surpass these cities if it has not already. Take a look at this data from Wikipedia to show what I mean:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

One can say the Cold War ended but the term "Cold War" is a misnomer as it was never a war with Russia but a perception. Here is what the term "Cold War" actually means according to the dictionary:
Cold war | Define Cold war at Dictionary.com

Based on that definition, we most certainly have entered into a new or renewed "Cold War" with Russia. As I said in the OP, multiple governments are concerned about the rhetoric and actions from Russia, not just the US. These actions are putting our government and other world governments in close proximity with each other and causing these other governments to take military actions of their own. Threats are being lobbed each side. In some cases, bombs are being lobbed against each other already. This is really the beginning I believe. Here are just a few articles with governments other then our own confirming what I am saying. Keep in mind this is only a few governments and articles. Every day for years I enjoy reading the news from all over the World on various topics. Its a hobby. That being said, I have been following these actions, rhetoric and positioning from Russia, Iran, North Korea, China and our allies closely. Something has a high potential to "pop off" either by accident or intentionally:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...cold-war-as-t/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/east-west...001245011.html

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...ia-walkom.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...9844a55791183c


Even if San Antonio is not the #1 target, I would bet a years salary we are on the list of important targets for follow up Nukes. Say someone does target NY or Washington first. That would give San Antonio time to react. Other then mass pandemonium and people clearing out the grocery shelves, gridlocked traffic out of the city etc, as the OP asked:

Are there any bunkers here in San Antonio?
Are there any underground tunnels (as suggested in another post on this exact forum) and where are their entrances at?
What can we do to be safe should we have an actual warning?

Last edited by txbullsfan; 10-09-2016 at 06:29 PM..
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Old 10-09-2016, 06:48 PM
 
Location: South Central Texas
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The Civil Defense seemed to be gearing up somewhat in the late 60's and early 70's. But Fallout shelters are no longer equipped or even designated as such these days. There are ammo bunkers at Medina Base and possibly others and various tunnels around town. Fire Stations no longer have the sirens. If we had an attack these days only those watching TV or listening to the radio would know soon enough to prepare in any way. Nuclear war is a nightmare scenario and still not too likely in my opinion. Now a nuke being set off by a terrorist is more likely but really isn't something we can plan for.
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:07 PM
 
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Default Medina Base near miss ,

The was no fissile material in the weapon that detonated that day, only "high explosives" so I was told by my old friend who was at work there at the time of the detonation at Medina Base.
I just had explained to me what happened on that day . A first hand accounting. I, in fact had a two hour conversation about what transpired that day at Medina Base. How.
Of course I don't know the first thing about Nuclear weapons but I have a very old friend who does.

Truly I don't know how much detail to divulge here about this long ago San Antonio near miss. The old man went quite into detail about what transpired. It was one of the most interesting conversations possibly ever I thought because of the ramifications of what could have been. What might have become of San Antonio.

A loud , audible, electrical arc was heard inside one bunker and then..........it was a miracle no one was killed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SATX56 View Post
I think i remember those shelters on Probandt. I think San Antonio wasn't high on the first strike list even when Kelly was still operating as a base. So I was told anyhow. Austin maybe, as they had silos there or near there. I do recall us having a Geiger counter near the time of the Medina Base explosion.
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:24 PM
 
Location: South Central Texas
114,838 posts, read 65,450,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huckster View Post
The was no fissile material in the weapon that detonated that day, only "high explosives" so I was told by my old friend who was at work there at the time of the detonation at Medina Base.
I just had explained to me what happened on that day . A first hand accounting. I, in fact had a two hour conversation about what transpired that day at Medina Base. How.
Of course I don't know the first thing about Nuclear weapons but I have a very old friend who does.

Truly I don't know how much detail to divulge here about this long ago San Antonio near miss. The old man went quite into detail about what transpired. It was one of the most interesting conversations possibly ever I thought because of the ramifications of what could have been. What might have become of San Antonio.

A loud , audible, electrical arc was heard inside one bunker and then..........it was a miracle no one was killed.
Yes.. that is what we know now. Scary thing is they were, at that time, a dismantling and disarming facility as I understand. Del Rio's Laughlin AFB was a facility for the same at one time. I forget the exact designation of these facilities. I read a lot about these facilities but my memory isn't the greatest.

The husband of a Nix hospital nurse gave me his account of the incident many years ago. He was there at the time of the explosion. I'm sure there were many not satisfied or believing the governments account of the situation.
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