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Gas prices are rising and the VIA Transportation is way too far behind in San Antonio, TX which don’t have rail transportation like San Diego, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Seattle, Denver, and Dallas.
In San Diego, the MTDB (Metropolitan Transit Development Board) had a plan to bring back the trolley. Apparently that the Southern Pacific didn’t want any more business so they wanted to sell the tracks due to the summer flash flood in Imperial Valley that have washed away.
So under their agreements, MTDB had to purchase the whole railroad tracks from San Diego to Imperial Valley and El Cajon.
Their first line operated July 1981 was from Downtown to International Border went very successful. For the last 20 years, the MTDB continued working on their projects to expand the lines. So there are three lines which now are colors.
Red Line - Old Town to Tijuana/Border via Downtown San Diego
Orange Line - 12 th & Imperial, Convention Center, Downtown San Diego to El Cajon
Green Line - Old Town to El Cajon, Santee via SDSU
Please note: Los Angeles now have trolley lines right after San Diego Trolley re-birth.
The opponents are anti-trolley that has nothing to do with taxes. They love their cars and they like the traffic. The next 5 to 10 years, roads and highway will be like Los Angeles that many opponents don’t realize what’s happening in San Antonio today! Eventhough the opponents wanted to drive 2 hours to and from work within 10 miles during the rush hour.
“The San Diego Trolley” book by Gene Holle, were not used by any Federal funds. It was used by local and state tax. They started off at $8.6 million light rail 16 miles.
Former Republican San Diego Mayor/California Gov. Pete Wilson and Former Democrat San Mayor Maureen O’Conner were involved with the light rail program.
The money should help pay for the project by local and state tax. Small percentage gasoline tax, perhaps.
Who all would have to be involved to execute a trolley system?
It’s a very difficult to answer this. It started off by a small group in way for the long run. After the small group being active, it grew bigger and bigger and more people were interesting to have the trolley back.
San Antonio
The City of San Antonio population is growing rapidly and the VIA public Transit will eventually demand better transportation impact.
The community will need 3 transit systems, BRT (Bus Rapid Transit), Trolley (Rail Transportation), and regular transit bus in certain areas.
If the community is unable to enhance public transportation in time will allow increase traffic problems, however, the roads and highways will be like Los Angeles that the community wouldn’t want that. History, San Antonio was the first major cities in the nation have had shut down the trolley back in 1933. San Diego Electric Railway had ceased April 24, 1949. Many of these PCC fleets were sold to El Paso and ran until 1970.
An interesting history on about Rochester, New York the smallest city subway had operated. It was shut down by one of the Republican representative who opposed rail transportation which has been lost for several decades. The main advantage for Rochester community if the subway is operating today will help people move around more freely by avoiding the terrible snow storms during the winter. Before the subway was shut down, Toronto, Canada Transit Board has tried hard to save it and it apparently that a Republican representative had won!
San Antonio need to have the trolley re-birth because this city barely bigger than San Diego. No light rail mass transportation and many Texas residences do not understand the tool that the light rail trolley attracts many riders and tourists.
After the San Diego trolley re-birth July 1981, for the first few months of services, the number of riders have gone up rapidly un-expected so they had to add a third car to make it 3. About a year later, by the Naval Ship building during the rush hour, enormous number of riders packed at the station waiting for the trolley. It was very successful and it is good to have at least number of cars off the road as much as possible.
San Antonio was the 1st major cities shut down the trolley system, please check this link:
TTM web (http://www.txtransportationmuseum.org/HIST12.htm - broken link)
The former Republican San Diego Mayor/California Gov. Pete Wilson was very involved with the light rail trolley transportation that have became successfully in San Diego. He was at the SDSU (San Diego State University) presentation ceremony July 2005 before the service officially available for the Green Line. This line has a tunnel/subway under SDSU.
Last edited by Busfan; 04-01-2008 at 01:05 PM..
Reason: San Antonio Light Rail (Trolley)
Gas prices are rising and the VIA Transportation is way too far behind in San Antonio, TX which don’t have rail transportation like San Diego, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Seattle, Denver, and Dallas.
In San Diego, the MTDB (Metropolitan Transit Development Board) had a plan to bring back the trolley. Apparently that the Southern Pacific didn’t want any more business so they wanted to sell the tracks due to the summer flash flood in Imperial Valley that have washed away.
So under their agreements, MTDB had to purchase the whole railroad tracks from San Diego to Imperial Valley and El Cajon.
Their first line operated July 1981 was from Downtown to International Border went very successful. For the last 20 years, the MTDB continued working on their projects to expand the lines. So there are three lines which now are colors.
Red Line - Old Town to Tijuana/Border via Downtown San Diego
Orange Line - 12 th & Imperial, Convention Center, Downtown San Diego to El Cajon
Green Line - Old Town to El Cajon, Santee via SDSU
Please note: Los Angeles now have trolley lines right after San Diego Trolley re-birth.
The opponents are anti-trolley that has nothing to do with taxes. They love their cars and they like the traffic. The next 5 to 10 years, roads and highway will be like Los Angeles that many opponents don’t realize what’s happening in San Antonio today! Eventhough the opponents wanted to drive 2 hours to and from work within 10 miles during the rush hour.
“The San Diego Trolley” book by Gene Holle, were not used by any Federal funds. It was used by local and state tax. They started off at $8.6 million light rail 16 miles.
Former Republican San Diego Mayor/California Gov. Pete Wilson and Former Democrat San Mayor Maureen O’Conner were involved with the light rail program.
The money should help pay for the project by local and state tax. Small percentage gasoline tax, perhaps.
Who all would have to be involved to execute a trolley system?
It’s a very difficult to answer this. It started off by a small group in way for the long run. After the small group being active, it grew bigger and bigger and more people were interesting to have the trolley back.
San Antonio
The City of San Antonio population is growing rapidly and the VIA public Transit will eventually demand better transportation impact.
The community will need 3 transit systems, BRT (Bus Rapid Transit), Trolley (Rail Transportation), and regular transit bus in certain areas.
If the community is unable to enhance public transportation in time will allow increase traffic problems, however, the roads and highways will be like Los Angeles that the community wouldn’t want that. History, San Antonio was the first major cities in the nation have had shut down the trolley back in 1933. San Diego Electric Railway had ceased April 24, 1949. Many of these PCC fleets were sold to El Paso and ran until 1970.
An interesting history on about Rochester, New York the smallest city subway had operated. It was shut down by one of the Republican representative who opposed rail transportation which has been lost for several decades. The main advantage for Rochester community if the subway is operating today will help people move around more freely by avoiding the terrible snow storms during the winter. Before the subway was shut down, Toronto, Canada Transit Board has tried hard to save it and it apparently that a Republican representative had won!
San Antonio need to have the trolley re-birth because this city barely bigger than San Diego. No light rail mass transportation and many Texas residences do not understand the tool that the light rail trolley attracts many riders and tourists.
After the San Diego trolley re-birth July 1981, for the first few months of services, the number of riders have gone up rapidly un-expected so they had to add a third car to make it 3. About a year later, by the Naval Ship building during the rush hour, enormous number of riders packed at the station waiting for the trolley. It was very successful and it is good to have at least number of cars off the road as much as possible.
San Antonio was the 1st major cities shut down the trolley system, please check this link:
TTM web (http://www.txtransportationmuseum.org/HIST12.htm - broken link)
The former Republican San Diego Mayor/California Gov. Pete Wilson was very involved with the light rail trolley transportation that have became successfully in San Diego. He was at the SDSU (San Diego State University) presentation ceremony July 2005 before the service officially available for the Green Line. This line has a tunnel/subway under SDSU.
You don't build a light-rail to stimulate growth. You build light-rail in high-growth areas to alleviate traffic.
While I agree with your basic point regarding the Southside's current readiness (or lack thereof), I would submit that mass transit has a major stimulating effect on an area. There is proof of this in the DC area, where some of the most dense development occurs around the subway stations, both in the city and out in suburbia. Land values increase, economies improve, etc.
While I agree with your basic point regarding the Southside's current readiness (or lack thereof), I would submit that mass transit has a major stimulating effect on an area. There is proof of this in the DC area, where some of the most dense development occurs around the subway stations, both in the city and out in suburbia. Land values increase, economies improve, etc.
--Dim
No doubt a light-rail would stimulate growth. You just don't build a system primarily for that reason.
To whoever mentioned us, we really don't have much of a rail system here in Seattle... they're working on elevated light rail from SEATAC to downtown that should open next year. There are tons of bus lines (your mileage may vary) and express busses that run up and down the HOV lanes from one major terminal to another.
The rail we have that works great is the Sounder. It's a standard commuter rail that runs from Tacoma - Seattle - Everett. Thousands of riders on that every day; the inbound routes are packed but the reverse commute isn't so full.
It's a great idea though. I lived in southern California (Seal Beach) for a while and the freeways were completely built out to the sidewalls. No more room for more lanes, but all of them were full with traffic. Nowhere else to build.
After spending the last couple of years in Houston, I found the (light rail) Metro service to be convenient, safe and enjoyable.
I have worked the last 7 years in sustainable development and alternative forms of transportation easily fits this category. Therefore, I am very interested with promoting the light rail movement.
I noticed until recently that you had an active group promoting light rail. This is a valid idea that will help the cause.
I have talked to VIA and my old associates and they suggested that it might be beneficial to set up a "Friends of Transit" for the cause of rapid and light rail.
Is there a group here that has received the backing of VIA or the MPO? Since Judge Wolff has made his statements I am sure this opens the doors for a Public Affairs group such as "Friends of Transit" to be the positive face to alternative forms of transportation.
The catalyst for our light rail system will most likely be the Austin-San Antonio Commuter Rail system running from Georgetown on the north end to Kelly USA on the south running on existing Union Pacific rails. 15 Stations the most important in SA will be the Airport station and the Downtown CBD stop. The ASA Rail District ASA Rail: Austin-San Antonio Intermunicipal Commuter Rail District is much further along than the general public realizes. The board met last Friday in San Marcos and the Chairman was quoted as saying they had "turned the corner" and it appears that there may be a perfect storm brewing. Austin is moving forward with their light rail program, gas prices are out of control, and UP is being pressured to route their hazardous cargo around the city. The ASA Rail District was funded in 1997 with Federal dollars and they already have a clear channel of communication to hopefully get a good chunk of the funding needed. The target date for going live with the system is 2012 but will not happen without a focused effort on Union Pacific and the allocation of Federal transportation funding dollars that will be distributed in late '09.
What I would hope for is that the rail line would help us tap in to the Austin workforce. We need to expand our white collar work force if we want to grow the City. Who is going to buy and rent all of the fancy condos that are planned ? The baby boomer market is only so deep and they really do not help grow a vibrant self sustaining community. We can supplement the transportation from the commuter rail stations with Via until we get the light rail plans ironed out. We could also run less expensive trolly/lighter rail routes out from the commuter rail stops allowing the commuter rail to serve as the backbone of the transit system.
Judge Wolf will most likely be our number one cheerleader and I hope we can get some momentum this time.
Very interesting, thank you. I've got a couple of questions for those kind enough to attempt answers:
1) Do light rail systems typically follow freeway routes (like I-10)?
2) If street level light rail were to be built up a road such as Fredericksburg (a great route in my opinion), how wide of a swath of historic homes would they have to demolish to do so? Take the "deco district" for instance. If they went along the west side of Fredericksburg, they would cut into the historic district. If they went along the east side, they would be forced to demolish the only commercial real estate strip that stands a chance of making that area worthy of rejuvenation. How would they do that?
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San Antonio Light Rail (Trolley)
