why such high % free/reduced students?

[Spock's Beard]

In another 20 years SA will be much like the east coast, where all college bound kids go to private schools..and the public school will be only for the gangs, and soon to be drop outs

Thanks to vouchers, many private school kids are poor ones going on taxpayer money, which I don't agree with. It doesn't make them smarter either. One if my neighbors has her son in private school, and he's failing everything. He's also a social recluse who has more friends online than in the real world. He is defintely not college material.

That's also why a lot of school districts are hurting as when these kids go to private schools, they take taxpayer money away from public schools, causing a downward spiral that's difficult for public schools to get out of.

NISD and NEISD are the 2 wealthy districts in San Antonio. Your findings do not surprise me..and the root cause of this is our former Mayor Henry Cisneros. He is the one that decided that section 8 housing should be spread all across the city(especially to the nice N/NE sides of town). Through various incentive programs...most apartments in San Antonio have section 8 housing(except the extremely high end),and some nice apartment complexes completely converted to section 8.

I STILL hate him for it. He called it "economic racism" because most section 8 in San Antonio were hispanics and he didn't want them "contained" to just the bad parts of town. I was a kid living with my parents when it happened. We were living in an apartment complex off of Woodstone Drive in a really nice apartment with fireplace and a 2-story ceiling in the living room, and loft bedrooms. The city made it entirely section 8 and kicked us out for being honest working people.

Now every neighborhood no matter how nice it is has the ghetto element dragging it down with crime and graffitti thanks to Cisneros. The area where I went to school (Holmes) is a disgrace now. When I was in high school, I felt safe walking around at night. Now doing that would be a death wish.

Clark high school is a prime example...some of San Antonio wealthiest neighborhoods feed into it (Dominion, Shavano Park, and Bently Manor), but all the Medical Center apartments also go there and those are mostly section 8. It wasn't this way 20 years ago. In another 20 years SA will be much like the east coast, where all college bound kids go to private schools..and the public school will be only for the gangs, and soon to be drop outs

Holmes is a prime example. when I was there, there were actual rich kids who went there. But since 1991 when I graduated, the landscape changed, and the rich moved out and the ghetto moved in. I read one report last year whene the retention rate was as low as 48%. It's so bad it's called a "dropout factory."
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When I was there, dropouts were so few that almost no one even knew who the hell they were. Now probably everyone knows a dropout or two. It's shameful for what is eaisly the city's most architecturally unique and beautiful school.

[jasonapr78]

Ok I have to respond to some of the posting going on here so here are some points of view I have on all of this:

1) Private vs. Public schools -- They both have their problems. I grew up in the public school system but also have had plenty of friends through the years who grew up in Private schools. Private schools are no better than public. First and foremost, most Private schools pay their teachers LESS than Public schools which tends to breed an attitude of indifference although not always. Second, Private schools tend to have a high degree of "clicques" as well as drugs to the affluent culture that pervades the schools. Public schools do have the gang problems depending on the area as well as subsidized lunch programs, etc. I can't speak for home schooling except to say that my biggest issue there is that it's extremely time consuming and tends to take away from the necessity for a dual-income family which many familes need to get by today (although with gas prices going the way they are it may change that argument due to commuting costs). Home schooling also tends to alienate children from the social aspects of growing up that they need in terms of interaction with other children, etc. In any and all instances, there are positives and negatives to home schooling, public schools and private schools so let's not over generalize and say that one is obviously the answer over the other. The answer therefore is..."it depends".

2) Free/Reduced lunches, Section 8 housing, Welfare -- It's a HUGE problem and we can blame ourselves and our elected officials for the perversion of these programs. The problem with our country in general right now is that we have bred a culture of entitlement and everyone thinks everyone else owes them something. Let me be as crystal clear about this as I can--NOBODY OWES ANYONE ANYTHING That applies to the sexes, races, cultures, political affiliations, religious affiliations, etc. More so now than in any other point in history we have the ability to make our lives our own. We live in a country that affords us all the PRIVILEDGE of making something of ourselves but we've allowed ourselves to become dependent on the government. Look at the housing issue for an example. Why should the government bail people out who made horrible uneducated and hasty decisions on the purchase of a home? Now I fully understand some people were legitimately taken advantage of but it's fairly simple: if you're buying a 500K home and your monthly payment is 600.00, then something is obviously not right...it's basic math. I'm tired of the taxpayers having to pay the bill which of course we are (see the Bear Stearns example).

3) Schools receive state funds for attendance, free/reduced lunch programs, test scores and a bunch of other factors. I think it's a shame that some school may be passing out "free" grades but to what do we owe that? Oh that's right, it's called "No Child Left Behind". Now I will not lay blame soley on President Bush because I feel that his heart was in the right place but his program has been perverted like many other government initiatives. The program has become a literal interpretation of the fact that if you as a teacher let a student fail, then you have failed. Let's be real about something. Not everyone will be President, not everyone will be a doctor, not everyone will be a teacher. A person's mere profession or status in life by itself does not define that person's life. The sooner we realize that we can't covey this 'everyone's a winner' attitude, the sooner we'll strengthen ourselves as a nation. Nothing is learned from winning, the real learning comes from losing. That doens't mean you just give up on someone who struggles but they must WANT better things for themselves. My fiance' is a teacher and I cannot tell you how true the tired cliche' of "90% of your time is spent on 10% of the students" is. What does that accomplish? You end up not nuturing the ones who DESIRE to learn.

4) We all need to stand up, be responsible for ourselves and help others when we can. For those that choose to fall behind, I say there are always consequences to every decision and action we make. Part of life is learning that and making sure to not repeat those mistakes and become better people for ourselves and our children and future generations. We all have a voice when we vote so let your congress men and women know your feelings and if enough people really care, then things will change. Remember your politicians work for YOU!

The biggest challenge we all face as human beings is resisting the desire to be complacent and stagnate. Challenge yourself everyday and challenge those around you. I love this city but we have problems...let's solve them together...pay it forward in a sense.

Sorry for the rant but I could go on...passionate topic to say the least.

Jason

[Spock's Beard]

I think it's a shame that some school may be passing out "free" grades but to what do we owe that? Oh that's right, it's called "No Child Left Behind"

When I was in school we had social promotion to "pass" kids to the next grade even though they failed. The logic to it was that most high school drop-outs are kids who failed a grade, and will drop around the time their graduating class leaves school, or shortly after because they're feeling left behind. It does make sense, but it doesn't deal with academics. I had a friend pushed through social promotion. In his last year of school, the school had him doing wood shop and building trades for most of the school day. When finished, he couldn't read worth a crap and math was out of the question. Academically, a GED is worth more than his high school diploma.

So such practices existed long before "No child left behind." It's just a new name for an old practice for pushing through kids who are just not comprehending the material.

Home schooling also tends to alienate children from the social aspects of growing up that they need in terms of interaction with other children, etc.

Home school kids tend to be country kids whose parents see the system as evil and are ultra-conservative. When I was in Crossroads mall a couple of years ago, they were having a home-school convention there, and everyone there looked like a Mormon or hillbilly. I don't think it's healthy for kids to be social shut-ins either. Learning interaction skills with strangers is one of the most important things a kid can learn.

Why should the government bail people out who made horrible uneducated and hasty decisions on the purchase of a home?

They're not offering to help homeowners. They're offering to help lenders keep their profits up so none go under. The airliners screwed the public after the bailout, Bear-Sterns will screw the public after it's bailout, and the mortgage companies will screw the public too. They'll take millions to billions for debt relief but won't pass that on to the borrowers who are the source of debt, so it'll be like money for free.

if you're buying a 500K home and your monthly payment is 600.00, then something is obviously not right...it's basic math.

Variable interest. One month, your payment is $600. The the lender decides to review your credit score and sees a mark for being late on a payment elsewhere. They then call you a risk, so what to do with risks? Raise payments to increase the probability of default! There's great logic there! Then your next payment is $700. Then the following one is $800.....I saw on the news that lenders as much a tripled some people's monthly payments and a lot of people's houses ended up being worth less than the mortgages on them.

Not everyone will be President, not everyone will be a doctor, not everyone will be a teacher. A person's mere profession or status in life by itself does not define that person's life. The sooner we realize that we can't covey this 'everyone's a winner' attitude, the sooner we'll strengthen ourselves as a nation.

Not everyone wants to be a doctor or lawyer. There is a culture in schools where ghetto kids think it's cool to not do your best. There's always the system to live off of and there's always jobs that don't need a lot of education. I don't think it's a good idea to waste time on kids who just will not learn no matter how hard you try. Some will even get pregnant and begin living off the system before they're even done with school. Holmes, my former high school, even had a nursery for a while to deal with such kids.

[TXtrkgrl]

Originally Posted by Spock's Beard

Home school kids tend to be country kids whose parents see the system as evil and are ultra-conservative. When I was in Crossroads mall a couple of years ago, they were having a home-school convention there, and everyone there looked like a Mormon or hillbilly. I don't think it's healthy for kids to be social shut-ins either.

I have to disagree with you on this one. It may have been like that in the past but not anymore.

[jules07]

Originally Posted by TXtrkgrl

I have to disagree with you on this one. It may have been like that in the past but not anymore.

She's right! Let's see, I am currently "homeschooling" my son and previously homeschooled my other kids for about 18 years.

Mom- died black hair, nose ring, tattoos, heavy make up, odd clothes.

Son - longish, straggly hair, in a Punk Rock band, wears lots of black/dark band tee-shirts (most of them inappropriate for public school) and those tight legged jeans.

While I would be the FIRST to admit that homeschooling is NOT perfect and certainly not for everyone, I will defend to the death that it does not automatically (or even "tend to") create social shut ins, social misfits, or that everyone looks like those FLDS folks! While homeschooling, my kids had tons of friends and then once they entered public school they assimilated quickly and made tons of new friends. My older girls who graduated from homeschooling do quite well socially, thank you very much, in their lives as grown adults ~ both in very different vocations.

Sorry for the rant. Just a sore spot for me. It's the one objection from folks who are not informed about all the aspects of homeschooling that drives me crazy the most.

Now, off to a nice evening out with friends and no CD for me tonight!! I've put my foot in my mouth way too much lately. Apparently.

[SA5]

As a proud public school educator (administrator) I can tell you that we are required to collect an application from every student. Parents are free to write "No Thanks" or something like that across the application and not give any information if they choose. The districts do receive federal funding based on the % of free/reduced and so people who apply do help...

About the public school horror story that was recounted earlier...I wonder where that could be? I have worked in three area districts and have never encountered anything like that. Never worked in NISD or NEISD, so maybe there, but really, public schools for the most part are pretty good. The standards for students are incredibly high (much MUCH more is expected of them now than when I was in school) and yet a more difficult population of students are reaching these goals. In my school we put a premium on providing fun and enriching activities to balance out the TAKS monster, but I'm sure there are schools that don't. Our school is about 80% free/reduced and we struggle with overstressed, overworked, underprepared parents and yet the kids do well academically (and we don't give grades away!).

As for homeschooling...I feel like "to each his own" on this. My only personal experience with this is the kids that come to us after having been unsuccessfully homeschooled. What a mess! I'm sure the ones that are successful are ones I'll never see.

[pobre]

Originally Posted by SA5

As a proud public school educator (administrator) I can tell you that we are required to collect an application from every student.

May I ask (politely) how districts confirm/validate information on the FR lunch apps? I'm just wondering, because from what I've seen, many of those coming in are waaay exaggerated. I do understand that some districts with high FR populations forego applications, and do free across the board (which does make sense on a cost-benefit basis).

[SA5]

Originally Posted by pobre

May I ask (politely) how districts confirm/validate information on the FR lunch apps? I'm just wondering, because from what I've seen, many of those coming in are waaay exaggerated. I do understand that some districts with high FR populations forego applications, and do free across the board (which does make sense on a cost-benefit basis).

Well...since you're being polite...

There is no way to verify except for PK students who have to provide proof of income for qualification into the program. Those parents provide pay stubs, tax forms or some other proof. Otherwise it is all done by accepting what the parents say. Now officially the Child Nutrition folks can audit applications and ask for proof randomly, but I can't think of when that's happened becasue of the time and manpower that would take. Also, I think the districts that do free across the board consider the cost of processing applications and monitoring with the cost of providing free for all and find it to be more beneficial (just as you said). There are so many rules and regs these folks have to follow I don't envy them trying to meet them all.

[DoubleTap]

The Michigan Department of Education household income guidelines are established by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for free and reduced-price meals and free milk through the National School Lunch, School Breakfast, Special Milk, and Child and Adult Care Food Programs. The income guidelines are basically the same from state-to-state, since they all have to comply with Federal guidleines. San Antonio has a similar table that establishes eligibility for free lunch. The point of posting it is to show that it isn't shoes or cars or clothes or the ability to buy snacks that judges if a kid gets a free lunch, its the income of their parents. If their income falls within the boundaries that will alow their child to benefit from free lunch, then the student gets free lunch.

[mpd33]

Originally Posted by DoubleTap

Entitlement? Since when aren't children entitled to food? I don't care what they wear on their feet, or what they arrive at school in, a hungry kid is a hungry kid. Feed them.

Children ARE entitled to food, food that their caregivers provide to them (not the school district). That is the point of these posts. No one said hungry children shouldn't eat.