What should SAPD do? (San Antonio, Atlanta: house, to buy, school)

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by CelesteDF

The battles of the civil rights era were about HUMAN rights. They were a precursor to America's eventual intervention (through financial and political pressure) in South Africa's apartheid movement, which most certainly did not involve American citizens. I believe we can agree to disagree on this topic.

fine. illegals have a HUMAN right to live in their OWN country just like i can't go to another country and expect to work andreap the benefits of that country. citizens deserve to reap the benefits of their own country, not give them away to those who come in from other countries and demand them away from citizens who have worked for those benefits.

[rd2007]

and non-profits shouldn't get involved in illegal enterprises..

trying to keep this SA related, but I can see it moving real quick..

[traveler guy]

Originally Posted by rd2007

exactly.. that's like saying it's ok to murder someone because your family is hungry and needed a place to live.. or it's ok to jack a car because you need a vehicle.. or it's ok to rob a store because you need cash..
there are ways to get in the country legally and it is completely unfair to virtually cut in line in front of all the people that are going about it the proper way.

BTW, illegal aliens come from all over the world, so the law does not only apply to a certain group..

Yeah but most if not all that sneak in come with no money and once they get a job they can only afford to pay for the necessities of life like food, shelter...

And you expect them to pay a extra bill just for some papers, man that is wrong. They might not be from this country but they are still people that are looking for a door to a better life.

It may be unfair to just come in with out getting the papers but it's also unfair that you would throw someone out of the country or split a family apart leaving many kids homeless in the country just cause their parent's aren't from this country.

[Goominim]

Originally Posted by rd2007

exactly.. that's like saying it's ok to murder someone because your family is hungry and needed a place to live.. or it's ok to jack a car because you need a vehicle.. or it's ok to rob a store because you need cash..
there are ways to get in the country legally and it is completely unfair to virtually cut in line in front of all the people that are going about it the proper way.

BTW, illegal aliens come from all over the world, so the law does not only apply to a certain group..

If a person were to take the analogies above to support their views, then the Hitler comparison from Celeste's post should also be considered. At least in the sense that people's lives are at issue. Illegal immigrants are not US citizens, yes, but they are still people with families/children and they are living in poverty - the fault of the country's government, as I understand. As a group, I don't feel that most or all illegals are here to sell drugs , rob/steal, or to get a "free ride". I tend to feel that the majority are hard working people trying to do everything they can to feed their kids and belong to a great country, instead of an impoverished one.

Of course, we are dealing with an issue with many aspects from which to form an opinion. As with the civil rights era - which is the right thing to do? Keep laws as they are because they are our laws, and treat law breakers accordingly?

To be honest, I don't have an concrete opinion formed myself on this issue. I'll also admit that I don't know much about the technical legalities or other specifics, but here's what I have floating around in my mind...

On the one hand, yes - illegal immigrants are breaking our laws just by coming here. On the other hand, if it costs thousands of dollars to come into the county legally, what other recourse would a Mexican citizen have to avoid poverty/starvation for their families? If they make pennies a day (or zip if there are no paying jobs in their area), how can they ever afford to pay the costs to be here legally?

Here's a thought - if the main issue is the fact that illegal immigrants are breaking the law by being here, then why not change the immigration law to allow them to come legally - at a cost they can afford?

[traveler guy]

Originally Posted by rd2007

I'll try to get a little more back on topic here.. I read the article in the paper today and it was about churches or church sponsored organizations. The part that gets me is they are considered non-profits and tax exempt, which should mean they should stay out of politics and the law. Organizations like these that get away from their intended purpose and start playing with fire should have their status changed because they are basically operating a business. not a legal business, but it's a business.. they should also be charged for some crimes too.

their not getting in the mix with politics or law enforcements cause, they looking at it as helping people not illegals so rally they aren't doing nothing wrong. They are doing what the church is suppose to do. They are what real christians are suppose to be like. risking your life just to help others or save others in this case.

[ryneone]

Originally Posted by Goominim

If a person were to take the analogies above to support their views, then the Hitler comparison from Celeste's post should also be considered. At least in the sense that people's lives are at issue. Illegal immigrants are not US citizens, yes, but they are still people with families/children and they are living in poverty - the fault of the country's government, as I understand. As a group, I don't feel that most or all illegals are here to sell drugs , rob/steal, or to get a "free ride". I tend to feel that the majority are hard working people trying to do everything they can to feed their kids and belong to a great country, instead of an impoverished one.

Of course, we are dealing with an issue with many aspects from which to form an opinion. As with the civil rights era - which is the right thing to do? Keep laws as they are because they are our laws, and treat law breakers accordingly?

To be honest, I don't have an concrete opinion formed myself on this issue. I'll also admit that I don't know much about the technical legalities or other specifics, but here's what I have floating around in my mind...

On the one hand, yes - illegal immigrants are breaking our laws just by coming here. On the other hand, if it costs thousands of dollars to come into the county legally, what other recourse would a Mexican citizen have to avoid poverty/starvation for their families? If they make pennies a day (or zip if there are no paying jobs in their area), how can they ever afford to pay the costs to be here legally?

Here's a thought - if the main issue is the fact that illegal immigrants are breaking the law by being here, then why not change the immigration law to allow them to come legally - at a cost they can afford?

Hard working yes but law breakers also.

Im hard working and I want to build a shed o my property. I have to gt that approved by the city. If I do not I suffer a consequence. It's funny it is a faith group that are being hypocritical. Ill dig it up after work but is it not in the bible to obey the law of the land?

The fact is we have laws in place to protect the general public. We are protected from outsiders and each other and also our selves.

[traveler guy]

Originally Posted by wehotex

fine. illegals have a HUMAN right to live in their OWN country just like i can't go to another country and expect to work andreap the benefits of that country. citizens deserve to reap the benefits of their own country, not give them away to those who come in from other countries and demand them away from citizens who have worked for those benefits.

The funny thing is all illegals who enter this country never get the benefits so this reap thew benefits isn't even a good argument, in fact it isn't a argument at all. They are to busy trying to make the money to live in this country to do anything we would consider a American privilege like voting which they wouldn't be able to do anyways, or any other thing that would involve a SSC or I.D. So just about all the benefits are gone.

They Civil rights movement is a good comparison since it involves peoples way of life, but on a bigger scale since we aren't talking about the U.S only now, no were talking about a international conflict here.

[GoTexan]

Originally Posted by traveler guy

The funny thing is all illegals who enter this country never get the benefits so this reap thew benefits isn't even a good argument, in fact it isn't a argument at all. They are to busy trying to make the money to live in this country to do anything we would consider a American privilege like voting which they wouldn't be able to do anyways, or any other thing that would involve a SSC or I.D. So just about all the benefits are gone.

They Civil rights movement is a good comparison since it involves peoples way of life, but on a bigger scale since we aren't talking about the U.S only now, no were talking about a international conflict here.

Illegals who enter this country are receiving HEALTHCARE. MAny illegals will have children that will benefit from govt programs so they do benefit. So back to your benefits argument.....? Please clarify your point.

Here is my view. The LEGAL immigration system is broken. Which cme first the chicken or the egg? The fact is the system is not working and we all are suffering the consequenses of it.

Immigrants have rights too. Instead of a willingness to share that hope, many people in our nation allow fear and hatred to blind them to the fact that many of these immigrants are good, hard working people. They only want the same things we have--to enjoy a good life, earn a living, feed their families and have a nice home to live in.

I am afraid Americans are overly consumed with what we want and selfishly fixiated on how much more we can get, that we often overlook the most important things in life....and we forget to help those who are less fortunate than us, especially in this hemisphere---specifically in Central and South America.

I would like to see the a system that works. Where ALL immigrants would be documented and pay taxes just like YOU and ME. Let them make a life here in the USA.

[Goominim]

Originally Posted by ryneone

Hard working yes but law breakers also.

Im hard working and I want to build a shed o my property. I have to gt that approved by the city. If I do not I suffer a consequence.

Just curious as to your opinion on the last thought/paragraph that I wrote?

Regarding breaking the law - If I were speeding, I'm guilty... period. Now if I were speeding while taking a person that just got ran over by a semi to a hospital is it still wrong? Yes, it is still breaking the law, but some reasons for breaking the law are justified, imo.

[GoTexan]

To answer the original point about laws being laws and shouldn't be broken... a judicial determination of the rights of others is what makes this country great. The law is never just 'the law' look at wallstreet!