Joe Horn found Not Guilty (Justin: how much, lawyer, neighbourhood)

[sapphire]

I'm pretty sure that he's downplaying the "hero" role on the advice of his counsel. If he were to have run around with his chest puffed out, whether he was right or whether he was wrong, that doesn't fare well with a lot of people. Lawyers are crafty little boogers, and they are keenly aware of the "perception" factor. That said, no one will ever know what happens to Mr. Horn when he closes his eyes and goes to sleep at night. except for Mr. Horn.

[majormadmax]

Originally Posted by Mister

I'm the best neighbor a person can have. Trust me, if some scumbag is inside my house I'm going to unload a magazine or two. If I see him threatening you (or anyone else) he's gonna eat pavement or eat lead. But I'm not going to shoot 2 fleeing burglars in the back just because they have a bag of your silverware in their hands.

My kids used to lock themselves out of the house and break in through the back window and I'd hate to think you'd shoot them if you saw them in the act. Cops are trained to use good judgment before they shoot. Mr. Horn didn't and has since said he was sorry that it happened and that he doesn't at all feel like a hero. It's disappointing to see so many armchair quarterbacks tagging him with that title. He's (probably) a nice guy who got caught up in the heat of the moment and made a bad decision that he regrets and luckily for him a jury decided that he didn't deserve to go to jail.

Horn made up his mind that he was going to shoot them before he ever left his house and he said so to the dispatcher. I don't think Horn deserves to go to jail and I wouldn't call him a murderer, but I certainly would hate to think that Texans will feel empowered to confront any perceived crime with deadly force.

Again, another weak comparison. Horn absolutely, positively confirmed that these two criminals were robbing the house next to his. It is why he tried to get the police to intervene.

Also, he didn't shoot them for robbing the house, he shot them after they attacked him when he tried to stop them. If you really think about it, it was their decision that ended up costing them their lives, not Horn's. Like I said, had they stopped and surrendered, and not attacked Horn, they would be alive today (and hopefully in jail). As it stands, they got what they deserved.

Anyway, had Horn intended to kill them, why would he call 911 and why would he have waited for them to attack him to do so? If he had intended to kill them, he could have easily walked up and shot both of them, and then claimed it was self defense. But he tried to get the authorities involved, and in the end that helped save him as the police officer witnessed the entire event.

And no one is advocating confronting crime with lethal force, but for certain felonies it is the same level of force that the police are authorized to use.

Lastly, a small but important point of contention is that the Grand Jury didn't just "decide" he was innocent, what they did was determine that he acted well within the law.

[Mister]

Originally Posted by majormadmax

No, they decided the attack the person that was trying to stop them from conducting their crime.

Even a ninja can't attack someone while running in the other direction, as far as I know.

Like I said, Horn's actions tiptoed along the line of what's legal. The jury decided that he shouldn't face charges and I'm fine with that. But I'm sure Mr. Horn was sweating it the entire time. I suspect we'll see the law changed slightly if we start seeing lots of cases where overzealous citizens start gunning people down for any perceived property crime.

As for California, I moved from there about 18 months ago and I hated their stupid gun laws and was very vocal about it. I'm very pro-gun, but I'm also very pro-common sense when it comes to the application of deadly force.

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by majormadmax

Again, another weak comparison. Horn absolutely, positively confirmed that these two criminals were robbing the house next to his. It is why he tried to get the police to intervene.

Also, he didn't shoot them for robbing the house, he shot them after they attacked him when he tried to stop them. If you really think about it, it was their decision that ended up costing them their lives, not Horn's. Like I said, had they stopped and surrendered, and not attacked Horn, they would be alive today (and hopefully in jail). As it stands, they got what they deserved.

Anyway, had Horn intended to kill them, why would he call 911 and why would he have waited for them to attack him to do so? If he had intended to kill them, he could have easily walked up and shot both of them, and then claimed it was self defense. But he tried to get the authorities involved, and in the end that helped save him as the police officer witnessed the entire event.

And no one is advocating confronting crime with lethal force, but for certain felonies it is the same level of force that the police are authorized to use.

Lastly, a small but important point of contention is that the Grand Jury didn't just "decide" he was innocent, what they did was determine that he acted well within the law.

The robbers never attacked him. They never even approached Horn, and Horn never tried to stop them (until he shot them of course). They were running from his neighbors' house. The only reason Horn justifies his actions as self-defense is because he claimed that the robbers were running towards his yard. The criminals had no intentions to hurt Horn, and posed no threat; their intentions were to rob his neighbors house. Horn got himself involved, which cost the lives of two people.

Horn is no hero, he is no example for the public to follow, unless you want your children to grow up thinking that shooting and killing someone is always the best solution to a problem. A human life cannot be replaced...Horn not only killed two people, but he hurt their families, friends.

I'm okay with gun rights, but not when it comes to shooting someone when it is not absolutely necessary. Horn's life was not in danger, his family's lives were not in danger, his neighbors' lives were not in danger!

Anyway, that's my two cents, I hate arguing politically...

[sapphire]

Yeah, who does he think he is killing those 2 innocents that only came to this country illegally to rob those houses you yourself don't want to rob!

GMAB. Don't break into houses in Texas, you might live to see another day. How hard is that to understand?

[1StarRanch]

Originally Posted by sapphire

Yeah, who does he think he is killing those 2 innocents that only came to this country illegally to rob those houses you yourself don't want to rob!

GMAB. Don't break into houses in Texas, you might live to see another day. How hard is that to understand?

Saph is that really you? Wow, we agree on something.

[majormadmax]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

The robbers never attacked him. They never even approached Horn, and Horn never tried to stop them (until he shot them of course). They were running from his neighbors' house. The only reason Horn justifies his actions as self-defense is because he claimed that the robbers were running towards his yard. The criminals had no intentions to hurt Horn, and posed no threat; their intentions were to rob his neighbors house. Horn got himself involved, which cost the lives of two people.

Horn is no hero, he is no example for the public to follow, unless you want your children to grow up thinking that shooting and killing someone is always the best solution to a problem. A human life cannot be replaced...Horn not only killed two people, but he hurt their families, friends.

I'm okay with gun rights, but not when it comes to shooting someone when it is not absolutely necessary. Horn's life was not in danger, his family's lives were not in danger, his neighbors' lives were not in danger!

Anyway, that's my two cents, I hate arguing politically...

Boo-friggin-hoo. If those two idiots were concerned about their families and friends, they would have found legitimate means of employment and not been into drugs and crime.

The police officer at the scene testified that the two did approach Horn and entered his property. He told them to stop and they continued. In other words, they attacked him and did post a threat, and got what they deserved!

I am sure if you ever are the victim of a similar situation your attitude would be different, but I for one believe Horn is a hero for risking his life to protect the property of his neighbor's from being stolen; and Texas law says it is legal to do so!

The biggest problem with some people is that won't take action to protect others. Luckily, that is the minority, especially here in Texas. Horn's neighbors all came to his defense, and that was probably a reason he was cleared. Well, that and the fact that he acted within the law!

[kevcrawford]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

The robbers never attacked him. They never even approached Horn, and Horn never tried to stop them (until he shot them of course). They were running from his neighbors' house. The only reason Horn justifies his actions as self-defense is because he claimed that the robbers were running towards his yard. The criminals had no intentions to hurt Horn, and posed no threat; their intentions were to rob his neighbors house. Horn got himself involved, which cost the lives of two people.

Horn is no hero, he is no example for the public to follow, unless you want your children to grow up thinking that shooting and killing someone is always the best solution to a problem. A human life cannot be replaced...Horn not only killed two people, but he hurt their families, friends.

I'm okay with gun rights, but not when it comes to shooting someone when it is not absolutely necessary. Horn's life was not in danger, his family's lives were not in danger, his neighbors' lives were not in danger!

Anyway, that's my two cents, I hate arguing politically...

You have no idea what their intentions were. You have no idea if they had a gun on them. You can sit in your tower on your computer, but when you're in a situation like he is, you think quick. You don't analyze anything. You react.

Two people breaking and entering are dangerous and pose a danger to anyone. They're even more dangerous if they threaten you and rush you.

The deserve to be shot. You say you can't replace a human life. That's true.

But would you really want THOSE lives replaced?

Dang hippies.

[Mister]

Originally Posted by majormadmax

Horn's neighbors all came to his defense, and that was probably a reason he was cleared.

I read quotes from a couple of neighbors who basically said he was a good guy, but they were sorry it happened. Definitely no hero talk ...

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

But would you really want THOSE lives replaced?

Horn himself said he wouldn't have done it if he could revisit that day.

[sapphire]

Originally Posted by Mister

Horn himself said he wouldn't have done it if he could revisit that day.

There is not a defense attorney worth his salt that would have encouraged or allowed Mr. Horn to play up the hero card.