Randolph AFB history!

[wCat]

ROFLMAO!!!!

I am sooooo confused.

According to the IMD (Internet Movie Database)

"WINGS" was filmed at:
Bexar County, Texas, USA

Camp Bullis - Harry Wurzbach Rd, San Antonio, Texas, USA

Camp Stanley, San Antonio, Texas, USA

Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas, USA

Kelly Field, San Antonio, Texas, USA

San Antonio, Texas, USA

Tucson, Arizona, USA


AND

"WEST POINT OF THE AIR" was filmed at:

McQueeney, Texas, USA

Randolph Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas, USA

San Antonio, Texas, USA


soooooo.....it looks like everyone is right!!!

Now....back to my "radioactive monkeys".......

[wCat]

Originally Posted by wCat

M2.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Nick....did you find this link when you were searching?

Handbook of Texas Online - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE

It supports your post above about the West Point of the Air. It further explains that the exquisite architecture and layout of the base further added to that title.

The article mentioned finding the location for the base reminds me of another "urban legend" that still circulates around. The property for Randolph field was primarily purchased from the descendants of Adolph Schertz....obviously he was a large land owner. The history is that his farm was cleared for construction and he and some other family members were buried on the land. Some of the graves were disinterred, but his remains were never recovered as some of the markers were destroyed or no longer legible. As the layout of the base was planned, it was determined that he is buried under one of the runways. I am not kidding about this one either. Of course I can't prove it.....and I doubt anyone can....but it sure is interesting!

Note to correct typo.....Mr. Schertz may have been Emil or Adolph...my notes do not make clear who was buried on the farm.

[satx56]

Originally Posted by wCat

ROFLMAO!!!!

I am sooooo confused.

According to the IMD (Internet Movie Database)

"WINGS" was filmed at:
Bexar County, Texas, USA

Camp Bullis - Harry Wurzbach Rd, San Antonio, Texas, USA

Camp Stanley, San Antonio, Texas, USA

Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas, USA


Kelly Field, San Antonio, Texas, USA

San Antonio, Texas, USA

Tucson, Arizona, USA


AND

"WEST POINT OF THE AIR" was filmed at:

McQueeney, Texas, USA

Randolph Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas, USA

San Antonio, Texas, USA


soooooo.....it looks like everyone is right!!!

Now....back to my "radioactive monkeys".......

Thanks wcat, I think I read "filmed at many bases around San Antonio" and probably assumed Randolph was one of them. Who built the Taj Mahal?

[TexasNick]

Anyoen seen Waldo Pepper with Robert Redford? They filmed it in the outlining areas of SA, I think Floresville, etc. I tried to watch that movie once, fell asleep...and I'm a huge airplane nut!

[hound 109]

Some second hand info here.

I bought a home & alot of pictures & memorabilia from an estate sale in NB of a German couple. They (he) were brought to the states during the Pennemundo (sp?) pick up after WW2.

He worked at Brooks & Randolph & (i believe) was involved in the training &/or observing of Monkees during the 50s as the US was beginning the space program. (Werner Von Braun was another Pennemundo pick up fwiw).

I did a quick google search & came up with the attached....there were alot of matches, but this one pertains to the chimps & possible chimp deaths:

Alternatives to Pain: Eight.

I also remember (8-9 years ago) going thru the paperwork & pics & doing searches at that time, & came to the conclusion that:

- there was ALOT of classified stuff going on back in the 50s.
- alot of it involved former german (nazi) scientists picked up after the war.
- the guy who owned the home that i purchased definitely was involved in Monkey training &/or observations.
- NB had quite a few Germans who came after the war & many "kept to themselves" (not unusual....but certainly interesting).

I'm gonna have to break into that "box of stuff" again....made for an interesting afternoon's reading.

[wCat]

Originally Posted by TexasNick

Anyoen seen Waldo Pepper with Robert Redford? They filmed it in the outlining areas of SA, I think Floresville, etc. I tried to watch that movie once, fell asleep...and I'm a huge airplane nut!

I remember that movie....back around 74ish? I was in Austin at UT. Down the hall in my dorm, lived, none other than our own Deborah Knapp Bonilla (sans the Bonilla part at that time). She landed a bit part in that movie and we all HAD to go see it. She got to snuggle in a sleeping bag with Robert Redford. I don't even remember that part, or they only showed the back of her head????....not memorable to the public, but we showed our support! LOL!

[wCat]

Originally Posted by hound 109

Some second hand info here.

I bought a home & alot of pictures & memorabilia from an estate sale in NB of a German couple. They (he) were brought to the states during the Pennemundo (sp?) pick up after WW2.

He worked at Brooks & Randolph & (i believe) was involved in the training &/or observing of Monkees during the 50s as the US was beginning the space program. (Werner Von Braun was another Pennemundo pick up fwiw).

I did a quick google search & came up with the attached....there were alot of matches, but this one pertains to the chimps & possible chimp deaths:

Alternatives to Pain: Eight.

I also remember (8-9 years ago) going thru the paperwork & pics & doing searches at that time, & came to the conclusion that:

- there was ALOT of classified stuff going on back in the 50s.
- alot of it involved former german (nazi) scientists picked up after the war.
- the guy who owned the home that i purchased definitely was involved in Monkey training &/or observations.
- NB had quite a few Germans who came after the war & many "kept to themselves" (not unusual....but certainly interesting).

I'm gonna have to break into that "box of stuff" again....made for an interesting afternoon's reading.

Well....hello there Hound 109! You have officially gotten my attention. From the Handbook of Texas Online, RE: Randolph, it said that Randolph ended 28 years of Aviation Medicine in 1959. The years I remember this "graveyard" would have been between 65-68. Apparently, the Aviation Medicine testing/ Aerospace Medicine was moved out or was combined with Brooks AFB when it ended at Randolph. The article you referenced was very interesting because of this specific information:

"Do You Have Any Idea How Miserable It Is to Die from Radiation Injury?"

Incidentally, in his 1977 experiment Bruner mentioned that one of the monkeys who received a high dose of radiation was permanently incapacitated and in fact died within an hour after exposure. The "difficulty with the surgical implants" may have been partly responsible, or perhaps the effect of the shocks: the investigator does not elaborate. However, a single death pales beside reports, from the USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas, of a long-term project in which 501 two-year old rhesus monkeys were exposed to proton radiation. over a nine year period following irradiation this resulted in 279 deaths from chronic pneumonia, gangrenous skin necrosis, gastritis, acute leukemia and other painful conditions. (Krupp,J.,1976). Even more monkeys perished - 1,379 in the years 1972-1977, according to the Washington Post (June 22, 1977) -in tests simulating the effects of the neutron bomb at the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland.

Donald Barnes, the psychologist already cited on p.128 and 133-134, who participated in experiments like the above at Brooks Air Force Base from 1964 until he left in 1980, commented as follows to the International Primate Protection League:

"Assuming the animals survive training (and many of them do not), my job was to determine their resistance to ionizing radiation, i.e. neutron, gamma, flash X-ray. In years past, I was ordered to keep a death watch on these irradiated subjects, which meant, simply, to see what happened until they died of radiation injury. Do you have any idea how miserable it is to die from radiation injury? I do, I've seen so many monkeys go through it.

At any rate, I finally got permission to sacrifice my subjects after the experiment proper was completed (from 1 to 12 hours as a rule). We injected them with a compound designed to slow the heart gradually, thereby supposedly minimizing pain. I often did this myself in order to minimize suffering occasioned by clumsiness or ineptitude of technicians: on each occasion, I felt more strongly that I didn't have the right to kill these innocent creatures. As I became familiar with the use of the data gained from these experiments, I discovered that the data was not used to help Man in the struggle against his environment-the data was (and is) used to generate more worthless experiments, thereby killing and crippling more animals. I finally objected to doing any more experiments in this area." (Anon., 1980f).

excerpt taken from - ALTERNATIVES TO PAIN
In Experiments on Animals, Dallas Pratt, M.D., Argus Archives, c1980

BTW - I did get an email from a friend who was also based at Randolph at that time but was about 9 years older. She distinctly remembered the "radioactive" signs in that location, but said she honestly did not remember anything about "monkeys". So....she did confirm something....

Keep digging!!! I may not be as looney as some people think! Thank you for such intriguing information!

[hound 109]

There were boxes of photos (lots of flowers & trees), books paintings by the Mrs. & a few documents & papers from the estate sale.....but most of the info i gleaned on the prior owner was from googling his name.

Up popped info on "Operation Paperclip", Brooks Airfield. Old times in the neighborhood also said the man worked at Brooks & Randolph. I believe (based on the digging I had to do) that this man was a lower level German who was picked up....& not in the Von Braun league....(but based on his books & papers etc. he was definitely a science whiz).

I've always been a history geek & love the stories that aren't always told in history books.......looks like a (W)cat & a hound are interested in the same things. If i come across anything i'll post.

[jojoefette]

I talked to a former base safety officer who confirmed that there were several radiated monkeys buried in that far corner of perimeter road, they were moved in late 1990s. They were test-pilots from the labs down at Brooks AFB. Randolph was much more isolated and rural than Brooks AFB back in the day.

Did you know there is a tunnel under the officer's club leading toward the Taj and vice versa? It is unused, but it is there. Also confirmed with former safety officer. There are also tunnels under the flight line...actually, they were fuel conduits where the pipes were removed--but tunnels nonetheless.

[jksa09]

Originally Posted by TexasNick

Anyoen seen Waldo Pepper with Robert Redford? They filmed it in the outlining areas of SA, I think Floresville, etc. I tried to watch that movie once, fell asleep...and I'm a huge airplane nut!

Waldo Pepper was filmed around the La Vernia area. I was an extra in the film. They really did crash the plane into the pond after the wheels came off.