U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Halloween!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-03-2008, 09:37 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 23,002,378 times
Reputation: 5787
Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post
Mom....just FYI....Joshua Young was living in MS in 1850. There is a Sebastopol, MS, but it was not created until 1882....long after he left. I could not find a reference for a town or anything with that name in Alabama or NC.

He was in Alabama between about 1838 and 1845. Then moved to MS...

His first wife Jane died in Texas and he married "Mrs" Mary L. Saunder" in 1856 in Seguin. They had five more children....making a total of 11 children born to Joshua.
Okay, I have a "Fields" in my husbands line (knowing what I've seen in my research it is always possible for a surname to be changed due to spelling and lack of the family being able to read and write when the census was taken). The Fields I have is:
Susan C. Fields b. 1836 GA , m. 1854 DeKalb, AL
Parents: William Fields Jr
b. 1805 NC
d. GA
m. Malissa Thornton 1830 GA

Willam Fields Sr
b. 1775 NC
d
m. Susan Morgan 1796 Wilkes Co, NC

Thomas Fields
b. abt 1757 Albermarle Co, VA
d. 1807 Wilkes Co, NC

Might not be a link at all but you never know from what I've seen.

The "Young" I was thinking of I finally figured out - my husbands aunt in Alabama. LOL!!! She is still alive and kicking.

Also, on MY side of the kin from Alabama they lived in one area known then as "Moscow, Alabama". It no longer exists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-03-2008, 10:13 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 23,002,378 times
Reputation: 5787
Could it be................... that this layer was not poured.????

The African American workers poured the mix into wooden forms they had built, about a foot high and from one to two feet wide. These forms were joined by iron rods to keep them from spreading apart, and held the set width apart by oak rods. When a layer hardened, in about a week, the forms were raised and another layer poured. The iron rods were driven out and used again. The oak rods remained imbedded in the thick concrete walls. It required skilled labor. The crews had to get the proportions just right—and if it was too hot or too cold, too wet or too dry—or the concrete would not set properly.




Another interesting read on the house:
San Marcos Record, San Marcos, TX - An Oasis of Yesteryear
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2008, 08:14 AM
 
4,794 posts, read 9,923,781 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2dfw View Post
Could it be................... that this layer was not poured.????

The African American workers poured the mix into wooden forms they had built, about a foot high and from one to two feet wide. These forms were joined by iron rods to keep them from spreading apart, and held the set width apart by oak rods. When a layer hardened, in about a week, the forms were raised and another layer poured. The iron rods were driven out and used again. The oak rods remained imbedded in the thick concrete walls. It required skilled labor. The crews had to get the proportions just right—and if it was too hot or too cold, too wet or too dry—or the concrete would not set properly.




Another interesting read on the house:
San Marcos Record, San Marcos, TX - An Oasis of Yesteryear
OMgosh....this is so funny...I posed this very same question and I quoted that very same info on the construction process. That still may be a possibility, but after Koki sent the photo of those very refined and carefully crafted and stained "bars", I am leaning against that theory. If they replaced the iron rods with wood rods that would be encased in concrete, I doubt they would go to the labor and cost of finishing them in such a manner. The "bars" in the photo look more like something that would be along a staircase banister ....only closer together.

Koki....can you add this one to your list?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2008, 05:23 PM
 
27 posts, read 81,182 times
Reputation: 25
Default "Disappointment Room" Photos and Answers

Well, I hope this will satisfy a few of our questions. The grounds have been excavated with the exception of one small area where the outhouse was. The grounds were approx. 4 acres, now it's 2.2 acres which is occupied by 60's houses and roads. Originally, I understood that the doors were added. Turns out they were always there. Every room had it's own entrance from the outside. The bars were taken down by the excavators when the house was being restored. They were put back in place at the completion of the restoration. There was no evidence of a tunnel or crawl space, just stories. The only room that did not have access was the "DISAPPOINTMENT ROOM". There are no secret passages anywhere. They found no evidence of alterations or remodeling by anyone other than Joshua. Every LeGette and Zorn that could be found was questioned about the house and tunnel. The Heritage Museum in Seguin has a book on the findings. They have no proof of anything, just stories. It is believed that there was a tunnel at the old Ranger station that was torn down years ago. It wasn't very far from the Sebastopol. The oak spacers and the "bars" are completely different from each other. I took pictures to show the difference.
Here's something I thought was strange,...Joshua was an elderly man when he built the house. His children were grown. Yet, they tell you that those bars were put there to keep the children out of that area. It is believed that the "room" was meant to be an indoor cistren. They actully poured the concrete over the top of the bars to hold them in. Again, there is no evidence to back that up. The master bedroom had a door behind the headboard that was suppose to go out to a veranda which was going to be the main entrance to the house. Joshua had intended to use one of the small rooms on the side as a bedroom. The door was there, but plastered over when the house was restored. The house would have overlooked the stream.
wCat, you were right about the name of the house! It got the name from the battle of the Crimean war 1853 to 1856. Siege of Sevastopol ended when Russia evacuated Sept. 8, 1855. Way to go CAT! Take a look at this web site, American Building Survey 1934, it tells all about the house.
Photo 1 this is a drawing of the "room". Note: NO DOORS
2. The room that leds to the bars. 3. Bars. See how the concrete surrounds them? 4. Here is one of the oak rods they used as a separater. 5. This is the bed that would have had the door behind it.
Attached Thumbnails
Disappointment Room-dsc05932.jpg   Disappointment Room-dsc05931.jpg   Disappointment Room-dsc05923.jpg   Disappointment Room-dsc05929.jpg   Disappointment Room-dsc05939.jpg  

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2008, 10:32 PM
 
4,794 posts, read 9,923,781 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by koki View Post
Well, I hope this will satisfy a few of our questions. The grounds have been excavated with the exception of one small area where the outhouse was. The grounds were approx. 4 acres, now it's 2.2 acres which is occupied by 60's houses and roads. Originally, I understood that the doors were added. Turns out they were always there. Every room had it's own entrance from the outside. The bars were taken down by the excavators when the house was being restored. They were put back in place at the completion of the restoration. There was no evidence of a tunnel or crawl space, just stories. The only room that did not have access was the "DISAPPOINTMENT ROOM". There are no secret passages anywhere. They found no evidence of alterations or remodeling by anyone other than Joshua. Every LeGette and Zorn that could be found was questioned about the house and tunnel. The Heritage Museum in Seguin has a book on the findings. They have no proof of anything, just stories. It is believed that there was a tunnel at the old Ranger station that was torn down years ago. It wasn't very far from the Sebastopol. The oak spacers and the "bars" are completely different from each other. I took pictures to show the difference.
Here's something I thought was strange,...Joshua was an elderly man when he built the house. His children were grown. Yet, they tell you that those bars were put there to keep the children out of that area. It is believed that the "room" was meant to be an indoor cistren. They actully poured the concrete over the top of the bars to hold them in. Again, there is no evidence to back that up. The master bedroom had a door behind the headboard that was suppose to go out to a veranda which was going to be the main entrance to the house. Joshua had intended to use one of the small rooms on the side as a bedroom. The door was there, but plastered over when the house was restored. The house would have overlooked the stream.
wCat, you were right about the name of the house! It got the name from the battle of the Crimean war 1853 to 1856. Siege of Sevastopol ended when Russia evacuated Sept. 8, 1855. Way to go CAT! Take a look at this web site, American Building Survey 1934, it tells all about the house.
Photo 1 this is a drawing of the "room". Note: NO DOORS
2. The room that leds to the bars. 3. Bars. See how the concrete surrounds them? 4. Here is one of the oak rods they used as a separater. 5. This is the bed that would have had the door behind it.
Koki....is there a link to the web site...or are these photos from the web site.

OK...photo #2 is large square room in the center of the drawing?(with chairs stacked to the side?) the disappointment room is the long and narrow room toward the right front of the drawing....with the bars.

Koki....did they tell you if Joshua Young ever lived in this house? I'm still unclear if he built it for his own family, or his sister. There are conflicting stories about that. She had a large family too, but when I compared the census records for 30 years, I couldn't tell the ages of any of her children, and who was who! She was living in Seguin by 1860...right after the house was completed. While she did end up "buying" the house, it was because of a settlement with Joshua's children by his first wife Jane who were laying claim to their portion of the house. He initially owned the land and was building the house when Jane died. Her children raised a fuss over what was rightfully theirs, so Catherine LeGette ended up buying it so she would have the official title. I'd like to go research the court house records and see how that was done. My guess is that Joshua gave her the money to purchase it outright. That info may not be disclosed in the deed records, however.

At any rate.....Catherine did have younger children...so the bars might have been installed to keep them out. Also...Joshua did have 11 children...and he was much older, but he had 4-5 small children by his wife Mary after 1854. Depending whether it was Joshua or Catherine.....there would have been younger children living there when the house was completed.

Still....so many questions.....fun stuff!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2008, 10:23 AM
 
27 posts, read 81,182 times
Reputation: 25
Hi wCat,
Sadly, Joshua never lived in this house. His sister Catharine lived there with her children from 1857-1874. She sold the house in 1878 to Joseph and Antoinette (Nettie)Zorn. Joe, his wife Nettie and their youngest son Calvert, one by one, died in the house. Joe Zorn Jr. went on to become the Mayor of Seguin for twenty years. The "Disappointment Room" was jokingly referred to as "the Mayor's private jail cell"!
Cat, I took the pictures. I didn't know if I could use the flash or not, so I didn't. I wish they were lighter.
The drawing was part of the display on the tour. The large room in the center is the same room with the folding chairs. The "Disappointment Room" is the small room on the other side of the bars.
I encourage you to take the tour and see it for yourself. My description of those wicked bars in that dark cold room, could never do it justice.
When you do go, look at the ceiling in the main room upstairs. It's almost a foot higher on one side. What am I saying? You would have looked anyway!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2008, 12:36 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Potranco/1604
179 posts, read 271,828 times
Reputation: 160
I love this thread. I really enjoy reading about all this historical stuff. I have two thoughts of what the room could have been for. My first is kinda spooky but if Joshua did have roots in Eastern Europe, (since he named the house according to a battle) is it possible that he built the room for some spiritual or supersticious reason. another possibility is for some sort of new but unsuccessful "air conditioner". With the vents below the house they may have kept cool air in the center of the house. Just thinking?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2008, 01:56 PM
 
4,794 posts, read 9,923,781 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementius88 View Post
I love this thread. I really enjoy reading about all this historical stuff. I have two thoughts of what the room could have been for. My first is kinda spooky but if Joshua did have roots in Eastern Europe, (since he named the house according to a battle) is it possible that he built the room for some spiritual or supersticious reason. another possibility is for some sort of new but unsuccessful "air conditioner". With the vents below the house they may have kept cool air in the center of the house. Just thinking?
New thinking is great! If you go back to the first page, Woblz posted a link to his heritage. It's very comprehensive and he doesn't appear to have roots in Eastern Europe. It's still sort of a mystery to me what significance the location of the original "Sebastapol" would have to a Southerner with deep colonial roots.

Here's something on a bit more morbid side....not sure how much I believe it....and surely there would have been some documentation for it. I'll toss it out there to "ponder on"....LOL.

Someone suggested it be a "crypt" of sorts. Not unlike the "mausoleum" type burials. Not sure who could have been in there....but a long narrow room with bars and no need to feed someone or have access???

According to Koki...the curators of the museum have determined that Joshua was building the house for himself...but then his 1st wife died. Possibly he had her crypt there??? (not my area of expertise!)

Woblz link to the family genealogy says Joshua was building the house for his sister and apparently never intended to live there himself. His sister Catherine was widowed in SC, so I doubt she brought her deceased husband with her. (but you never know!)

She moved to Seguin and was in the house during the 1960 census. The order of her chidren on the genealogy page are incorrect...and the census records didn't help. Two of her children with living with relatives on neighboring farms in 1950 and were not listed with her and her husband that census year.

In approximate order, they were:
Henry Y Legette
Eliza or Elizabeth aka E. T. Legette
Martha or Mattie
Jesse
Louis/Lewis/Levi
Julia
Jane
Mary

All these children were married and accounted for....so none of them ended up locked in that room.

As far as the Zorn's...they like many Southerners were recovering from the economical disaster during the reconstruction years post Civil War. They had a large family also...and all seven children survived and moved off. The exception being Calvert, who never married and moved back in with his elderly parents. As Koki said, Joseph Zorn, Catherine Antoinette (Nettie) Zorn, and Calvert W. Zorn all died in that house.

So...Koki....there's another "weird" idea for that room!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2008, 02:21 PM
 
4,794 posts, read 9,923,781 times
Reputation: 2659
Look slightly familiar???

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2008, 07:06 AM
 
27 posts, read 81,182 times
Reputation: 25
Wink Disappointment Room

wCat, is that Edgar Nolte's Mausoleum? I knock on his door all the time! If it's not, then I don't have a clue. I think the crypt idea is a little creepy, but not out of the question. About the "American Building Survey 1934" I can't find anything on the Sebastopol either. The Ranger told me about it. She said to be "sure and look up that site". Here's something I thought was interesting,...the Magnolia Hotel in Seguin has the same roof! It was built 8 years before the Sebastopol. Same designer Cat?
Dementius88 I really don't think this room was going to be used for air-conditioning. I'm no expert, but,...!!! Keep tossing your thoughts in the pot though. We'll come up with something eventually.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > San Antonio
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top